Atheists causing problems for Muslims (as they already do for Christians) (pray, evolution)

[Vizio]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

Making up S*#t is not answering anything or explaining it. Here is an answer 'nature did it.' That's an answer therefore we answered it. Wow! Brilliant thinking there Viz!

Simply stating that "abiogenesisdidit", instead of considering all options is, in essence, just that. Let's be real here...the best answer is that there is a creator. You just are not willing to go with it. I get that.

Originally Posted by Vizio

Simply stating that "abiogenesisdidit", instead of considering all options is, in essence, just that. Let's be real here...the best answer is that there is a creator. You just are not willing to go with it. I get that.

I consider all options - I think it is you who do not!

So let's consider Goddunit. Explain how! Ready set go! Oh first you ought to at least demonstrate that he exists to begin with- ready set go!

I'll be waiting! Until then can scientists get on with gathering that evidence you always spend enormous amounts of time fighting against.

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by Vizio

Perhaps I'm not quite understanding the phrasing..but what does "You bods are not" mean?

And no--we are not "done looking". We like to see how God did things, too.

Ah. Ok I concede that point. Let's say that we are both looking.

[O.A.Bachlow]

Originally Posted by Vizio

Simply stating that "abiogenesisdidit", instead of considering all options is, in essence, just that. Let's be real here...the best answer is that there is a creator. You just are not willing to go with it. I get that.

Even a tree thinks....it might take ten thousand years to get a creative thought out and generate a seed that flies like a helicopter...a seed that is more widely dispersed...or a common burr that sticks to the cuff of your pants and gets a free ride for a mile and then plants itself...this is thought....this is intelligence. The universe is conscious. There is a fantastic design. I think the term intelligent design is great until some non thinking wack job so called Christian states that the world is only 6000 years old...Religion and fantastic extremism and myth give God a bad name.

God does not use magic or trickery to operate. Water into wine is a myth and virgin birth is impossible...These are man made religious creations...All I know is that logic and reality is what Christ was about....the rest is garbage.

[Vizio]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

I consider all options - I think it is you who do not!

So let's consider Goddunit. Explain how! Ready set go! Oh first you ought to at least demonstrate that he exists to begin with- ready set go!

He spoke and created it.

How that works? I don't know. But I believe that. I just question why you'd choose to believe something that science has determined cannot happen, when you claim to be a scientific minded person.

I'll be waiting! Until then can scientists get on with gathering that evidence you always spend enormous amounts of time fighting against.

I still like science. I just watched a video the other day on Quantum Physics. It fascinates me. There is a whole universe of things for us to study.

Originally Posted by Vizio

Perhaps I'm not quite understanding the phrasing..but what does "You bods are not" mean?

And no--we are not "done looking". We like to see how God did things, too.

God is a terrible hypothesis/theory! You don't have a clue how he did anything other than attributing, a priori, magical powers to him which explains nothing and at the same time everything. No wonder you guys have not had any success in giving an explanation of how he did it ever since your fair-tale was invoked. Now consider what science has offered as an explanation for all sorts of things that were once under the umbrella of god/s.

[Vizio]

Originally Posted by O.A.Bachlow

God does not use magic or trickery to operate. Water into wine is a myth and virgin birth is impossible...These are man made religious creations...All I know is that logic and reality is what Christ was about....the rest is garbage.

How do you know that?

Originally Posted by Vizio

He spoke and created it.

How that works? I don't know. But I believe that. I just question why you'd choose to believe something that science has determined cannot happen, when you claim to be a scientific minded person.

Again, that is not an explanation!

If that is fine then why do you complain when science does not have an answer yet. And science has not determined that it is impossible - that is a lie. If you think so then demonstrate how science has done so - otherwise you are stuck with offering your own evidence for your claim instead of nit-picking ours.

I still like science. I just watched a video the other day on Quantum Physics. It fascinates me. There is a whole universe of things for us to study.

Yes, and that reiterates my point - you can't possible know that science has proven that it is impossible when we have yet to exhaust all the knowledge that is possible to know regarding the wonders and ways of nature.

[O.A.Bachlow]

Originally Posted by Vizio

How do you know that?

It is called common sense- "I am the truth (reality) the light and the way"...In the book of Matthew it clearly states that Joe the man living with the so called virgin Mary...was the father of Jesus...and I do not believe Joe yelled out the window proclaiming - I did not have sex with that woman..

As for the water into wine myth....it was an inside joke.. "You have saved the best wine till last"...at the wedding feast it was very hot and everyone drank their fill of alcohol...Christ suggested that the servants fill up some wine jugs with cool water...exactly what they needed...not more booze..

The three fish and bread myth that fed the crowd at the sermon...Christ just set an example of sharing and everyone who had hidden their lunch under their cloaks brought out food...more than enough for everyone...

The rising from the dead....Christ was walking about with a wound and asked doubting Thomas to stick his finger in the spear hole...I believe that Christ's uncle who claimed the body knew he was still alive...I believe he survived the execution....The core of Christianity was about the rights of the individual...freedom...not to be enslaved and dominated by the state...to face reality...to create a heaven on earth through good behaviour...to stop war by loving your enemy...who if they continued to hate would destroy themselves regardless....

This man was brilliant and suggested that the rule of law was important. Today there are no rules and no law...it is a free for all...a mess....."I have not come to abolish the law but to fulfill the letter of the law" to para phrase...

Christ was intelligent.

[Shirina]

Originally Posted by Vizio

Yup. And I've observed that you can lead an atheist to evidence but you can't make him believe.

You don't HAVE any evidence, Vizio.

And that isn't just me talking. If you had evidence, the entire world would be rocking back on its heels and the debate would be over.

But it's not. Which means the evidence (so-called) isn't anywhere near conclusive enough to prove that a god exists much less that your specific god exists.

Originally Posted by Vizio

If you say so.

It's not just me, Vizio. I'm not a self back-patter. I have had FAR too many people say so for me to adopt any sort of false modesty on this point.

Originally Posted by Vizio

Just answer me one question: How did life begin? And don't make any assumptions.

I haven't the slightest idea.

And neither do you.

Not that this question has anything whatsoever to do with any kind of evidence for the existence of a god, mind you, and it certainly offers no evidence for the existence of your specific god.

It only represents a question science hasn't answered yet.

Just like there was a time when science hadn't yet answered the question: How did the sun get here? I'm sure at some point there were deity worshipers, perhaps even Christians, who used the same argument regarding the sun that you're making with the origin of life.

"Well ... since YOU don't know how the sun originated and since the best minds in the world haven't figured out how it happened, the only possible explanation is that God created it with magic!"

Of course today we know all about the sun and the life cycles of stars. Even you would no longer claim that the sun just "poofed" into being the way you now claim that humans "poofed" into being. Unless, of course, you're a Young Earth Creationist which you have said repeatedly that you're not.

Therefore, this notion that stumping science with the "How did life begin?" question is somehow proving the existence of a god is just as nonsensical now as stumping science with "Where did the sun come from?" was then.

By the same token, there's simply no reason to expect science to have all of the answers today any more than there was a reason to expect science to have all of the answers 100, 300, 500, or 1000 years ago. Just what makes you think that, today, science stands at the pinnacle of knowledge? What makes you think that, today, all that can be known is known? All that can be discovered has been discovered? Thus, if we still do not know where life came from, it will never be known and, therefore, it must have a supernatural (ergo, divine) cause?

There's some super-flawed reasoning with the cosmological argument. There always was.