"this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." Biggest joke ever played on makind? (disciples, priests)
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That's a decent explanation. I don't buy it myself, because it makes better sense that it was in the context of the immediate future. Take Mark 12 end and 13 first verses, when Jesus talks of one stone not being left on another - a prediction of the temple and not to be taken literally. A number of stones were left on the others even to today, but to let them think that the imminent destruction of the Temple was what he was talking about when he was talking about thousands of years in the future is very odd exposition.
My take...and I know it won't be yours..is that the writers who used this talk in the Gospel they had (John didn't, and doesn't have this talk at all) ..were writing when the Temple had been destroyed in recent history and they were expecting 'These Things' any day now. That didn't come about and so of course it has to be all re -interpreted to refer to a couple of thousand years in the future.
This might change your mind, but I doubt it being of an intransigent nature:
"Historian Flavius Josephus wrote that the entirety of the temple was indeed in total ruin and destruction after 70 AD. He went on to say that if he had not personally been in Jerusalem during the war and witnessed the demolition by Titus of the temple that took place there, he wouldn’t have believed it ever existed. Josephus (Jewish Wars, VII, 1.1) speaks of widespread destruction in all Jerusalem as well." Archeology Temple - Robert Cornuke - Koinonia House
This might change your mind, but I doubt it being of an intransigent nature:
"Historian Flavius Josephus wrote that the entirety of the temple was indeed in total ruin and destruction after 70 AD. He went on to say that if he had not personally been in Jerusalem during the war and witnessed the demolition by Titus of the temple that took place there, he wouldn’t have believed it ever existed. Josephus (Jewish Wars, VII, 1.1) speaks of widespread destruction in all Jerusalem as well." Archeology Temple - Robert Cornuke - Koinonia House
Yup, a 7 year war where the sacrifices were cut off in the middle of the week.
Yes. The context certainly indicates the people living at the time (who would "Not taste death" until it all came about as predicted at the talk on the mount of Olives), not the human race as a whole.
There will be a resurrection of the just and unjust. That generation of that resurrection will not pass by:
Luk 21:32 Verily, I am saying to you that by no means may this generation be passing by till all should be occurring."
I'm not sure this is part of what makes America great (and yes, I get that you're being facetious); indeed, fundy-ism is part of what has KEPT America from being great by attempting to hold back the tides of knowledge, logic, science, freedom and so on.
This might change your mind, but I doubt it being of an intransigent nature:
"Historian Flavius Josephus wrote that the entirety of the temple was indeed in total ruin and destruction after 70 AD. He went on to say that if he had not personally been in Jerusalem during the war and witnessed the demolition by Titus of the temple that took place there, he wouldn’t have believed it ever existed. Josephus (Jewish Wars, VII, 1.1) speaks of widespread destruction in all Jerusalem as well." Archeology Temple - Robert Cornuke - Koinonia House
Chum, some bits of the Herodian temple are standing to a half dozen feet even now. Josephus can be excused for what he wrote but, strictly speaking, it wasn't literally correct.
That said, of course in somewhat poetic terms, he was saying that not one stone was left on another. Which usefully explains the expression - which, as I say, isn't literally true- used in the Synoptics. So, if that was the case, the predicted Things should have come about before the last of that Generation died.
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Originally Posted by Eusebius
There will be a resurrection of the just and unjust. That generation of that resurrection will not pass by:
Luk 21:32 Verily, I am saying to you that by no means may this generation be passing by till all should be occurring."
Didn't happen, did it? Now, what've you got that even looks like evidence of your argument - whatever it is. If you have nothing better than "I believe the Bible is true, and never mind the evidence" the Intrancigence is all on your side.
Please provide scientific proof for that statement.
You cut my sentence in half. The rest is self-evident but would you really like me to provide you with examples? There's no way you don't already know this stuff.
Here is the full sentence:
Quote:
I'm not sure this is part of what makes America great (and yes, I get that you're being facetious); indeed, fundy-ism is part of what has KEPT America from being great by attempting to hold back the tides of knowledge, logic, science, freedom and so on.
In the end result, though, it's all facetiousness, obviously; who can find a universally acceptable proof for "makes America 'great'" or "keeps America from being 'great'"? Is this all you have in your pocket today, Viz, semantics to disprove that anti-science and anti-progress could possibly be negatives?
Now as far as your own facetiousness..."scientific proof"...again, you're trying to prove that NOTHING is provable, a dead-end not only intellectually but spiritually and weird coming from someone who claims to be a pastor. If nothing can literally be scientifically proven, even if being observed and utilized, then you're not typing on a computer right now. At this point in the devolution of a logical, sane discussion (thanks again, Viz), things are really more appropriate for the Philosophy forum than S&R. Are we even here? Let's all stare at our hands in wonder for an hour.
OR let's stop being intellectually dishonest in an effort to cling to our beliefs v. having an actual discussion that goes anywhere.
Chum, some bits of the Herodian temple are standing to a half dozen feet even now. Josephus can be excused for what he wrote but, strictly speaking, it wasn't literally correct.
No, in fact nothing of the Herodian temple is still standing. The so called "Temple Mount" is not where Herod's temple was. Please read the article.
See the temple to the left in the picture? That is no longer. To the right of that is where the present so-called "Temple Mount" is but that is not correct.
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That said, of course in somewhat poetic terms, he was saying that not one stone was left on another. Which usefully explains the expression - which, as I say, isn't literally true- used in the Synoptics. So, if that was the case, the predicted Things should have come about before the last of that Generation died.
Jesus often spoke in ways purposely so that the Israelites would not "get it" unless it were given them from above. For instance, Jesus said "raze this temple and in three days I will raise it up" making a play on raze and raise. However the Jews thought He was speaking of Herod's temple and accused Him to the Sanhedrin of trying to destroy the temple.
Likewise, that generation, consequent to their being resurrected, will not pass away until ALL (not some) but ALL these things occur. Jesus didn't have to say "Umm, but first this generation I am speaking to must first be resurrected" Just as He didn't have to explain Himself concerning the ALL the things that had to occur and that generation seeing ALL of those things. It is obvious there must be a resurrection for them to see all the things Jesus spoke of.
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Didn't happen, did it? Now, what've you got that even looks like evidence of your argument - whatever it is. If you have nothing better than "I believe the Bible is true, and never mind the evidence" the Intrancigence is all on your side.
Yea, and the naysayers probably said the same thing to Adam and Eve. "Hey Adam (chuckle) where is that one you said who is supposed to injure the serpents head? You are close to dying now." Then they said it to the next generation and the next, laughing that they would be so stupid to actually believe God. But He did come. So who gets the last laugh?
It is spelled "intransigence."
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