Pope says Church Should Ask Forgiveness From Gays For Past Treatment (churches, prophets)
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Pope Francis said on Sunday that Christians and the Roman Catholic Church should seek forgiveness from homosexuals for the way they had treated them.
Speaking to reporters aboard the plane taking him back to Rome from Armenia, he also said the Church should ask forgiveness for the way it has treated women, for turning a blind eye to child labor and for "blessing so many weapons" in the past.
In the hour-long freewheeling conversation that has become a trademark of his international travels, Francis was asked if he agreed with recent comments by a German Roman Catholic cardinal that the Church should apologize to gays.
Francis looked sad when the reporter asked if an apology was made more urgent by the killing of 49 people at a gay club in Orlando, Florida this month.
He recalled Church teachings that homosexuals "should not be discriminated against. They should be respected, accompanied pastorally."
He added: "I think that the Church not only should apologize ... to a gay person whom it offended but it must also apologize to the poor as well, to the women who have been exploited, to children who have been exploited by (being forced to) work. It must apologize for having blessed so many weapons."
The Church teaches that homosexual tendencies are not sinful but homosexual acts are, and that homosexuals should try to be chaste.
Francis repeated a slightly modified version of the now-famous "Who am I to judge?" comment he made about gays on the first foreign trip after his election in 2013.
"The questions is: if a person who has that condition, who has good will, and who looks for God, who are we to judge?"
FORGIVENESS, NOT JUST APOLOGY
Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi said that the pope, by saying "has that condition", did not imply a medical condition but "a person in that situation". In Italian, the word "condition" can also mean "situation".
"We Christians have to apologize for so many things, not just for this (treatment of gays), but we must ask for forgiveness, not just apologize! Forgiveness! Lord, it is a word we forget so often!" he said.
Francis has been hailed by many in the gay community for being the most merciful pope toward them in recent history and conservative Catholics have criticized him for making comments they say are ambiguous about sexual morality.
He told reporters on the plane "there are traditions in some countries, some cultures, that have a different mentality about this question (homosexuals)" and there are "some (gay) demonstrations that are too offensive for some".
But he suggested that those were not grounds for discrimination or marginalization of gays.
The pope did not elaborate on what he meant by seeking forgiveness for the Church "having blessed so many weapons", but it appeared to be a reference to some Churchmen who actively backed wars in the past.
In other parts of the conversation, Francis said he hoped the European Union would be able to give itself another form after the United Kingdom's decision to leave.
"There is something that is not working in that bulky union, but let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water, let’s try to jump-start things, to re-create," he said.
He also denied reports that former Pope Benedict, who resigned in 2013, was still exercising influence inside the Vatican.
"There is only one pope," he said. He praised Benedict, 89, for "protecting me, having my back, with his prayers".
Francis said he had heard that when some Church officials had gone to Benedict to complain that Francis was too liberal, Benedict "sent them packing".
More and more, I like this Pope. Nice to see some modern thinking, in modern times, not mired by all the antiquated mumbo jumbo that the church clings to.
Live and let live. If you have so much faith in your god getting it right, stop fighting his war for him.
"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." ~Matthew 22:35-40
More and more, I like this Pope. Nice to see some modern thinking, in modern times, not mired by all the antiquated mumbo jumbo that the church clings to.
Live and let live. If you have so much faith in your god getting it right, stop fighting his war for him.
I agree wholeheartedly. I love this man. He is simply awesome.
A note to Viz-- This is an example for your good Christian thread which you seem to keep avoiding.
I wish the Pope would (or could) do more to systematically change the the catholic church. Little institutional change has happened, and it's doing little to address some of the more serious problems.
But, I give credit where it's due. At least a guy like this, in his position of power, is putting these ideas out there. He's not asking you to endorse gay marriage or even stop thinking it's a sin, but he is asking you to look out for gay people. Sin or not, they're human beings and should be treated as such. It's a shame how prevalent the opposite view is among so many.
I'm still not an enthusiast for this Pope, but I am willing to be convinced. He has made some bad mistakes - the support of Islamic terrorism was the worst. But we can forgive a dumbass for Vatican - dogma - as - it - now - stands, if he is willing to admit that he has much to learn from humanist society and he may be telling his church what to think, but he should be listening and learning from the rest of the world.
This would not be easy as it means accepting that Church Dogma has to be adjusted to keep pace with the rest of the world. Within his own church he can canonize all the saints he wants. Let them have their fun. He can exhibit the "Bones of Peter" and insist that no women can be ordained. He can expect flak on that where it conflicts with secular law, but he can do it - all the time churches have privileges to cling to.
He's doing his best, I think, to try to stop the church from getting so badly out of step with the rest of the world that it risks collapse (I know that seems improbable, given the millions and millions of Catholics, but he knows what is happening). He has an almost impossible task, made worse by resistance within is own church even to the slightest reform on dogma.
I credit him for trying and can forgive (if not yet forget) some of his worst blunders. But he has to admit that he should reconsider himself as a lecturer of the secular world, and accept a position as a student.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 06-27-2016 at 02:44 AM..
More and more, I like this Pope. Nice to see some modern thinking, in modern times, not mired by all the antiquated mumbo jumbo that the church clings to.
Live and let live. If you have so much faith in your god getting it right, stop fighting his war for him.
"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." ~Matthew 22:35-40
I like the new pope too. He knows what we want and how it is have some, well, discontinuities. He likes to work with what do have.
I don't like apologizing for what I didn't do or understand that if the tables were turned "they" would do the exact same thing. That being, try and improve. For example, slavery is stupid but what is happening now is revenge for something I never did. Well, I guess I have prejudice but only in the same quantities as the accusers.
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