Bible the "Inspired Words of God" - How Do We Know? (genesis, pray)

[auralmack]

Originally Posted by cupper3

Often in these discussions, when it comes down to giving authority to the bible, we hear the words from believers, usually when they have no other discussion point to make, that the bible is "the inspired words of god".

How would one know? How would one test that hypothesis without using the bible as its own authority, as that is just a circular argument?

Some say one needs to let the spirit into one's heart? WTH? The heart is a muscle, with no thinking ability whatsoever. Yes, the ancients use to think it was the center of one's being, but we know that is wrong. And if that is a metaphorical statement, one can say anything else in the bible is metaphorical and allegorical, at best.

So, how do we KNOW that your god inspired the bible as it exists today?

What do you think inspired men to use 7 days a week? Where did that idea come from? What do you think "Inspired" us to do that? Why does the whole world now keep 7 days a week, religion or no religion? Something must have inspired that.

And if the heart is just a muscle where is the thinking behind the white and red blood cells carrying oxygen and nutrients to every part of the body? So yes, this thinking is beneath or beyond your thinking consciousness. You're not deciding anything it does or doesn't do. You just occupy, and pretty much do as you wish.

And my dictionary still puts the heart center to one's being: 1. Like you said. 2. This organ considered as the seat of life or vital powers, or of thought, feeling, or emotion: to die of a broken heart. 3. The seat of emotions and affections often in contrast to the head as the seat of the intellect: to win a persons heart. 4. Feeling; sensibility; capacity for sympathy: to have no heart. 5. Spirit, courage, or enthusiasm: to take heart. 6. The innermost or middle part of anything...etc. And without this center piece causing the blood to flow with oxygen and food your brain would not be doing any thinking at all...and all the other decisions required that you don't do to keep it going would cease also. What does your mind think when there is no blood flow? Yep, pretty much the centerpiece of our being if you ask me. You could be brain dead and still exist, but without the heart and the blood-flow everything becomes decadent, everything.

So my dictionary is full of metaphorical and allegorical statements and just as guilty as you think the Bible is? And every argument is a circular argument or a broken left off argument and as far as I can tell there is no straight lines in this universe. Take two straight parallel lines and run them until they cross. The word of God inspires men the same way anyone else would do or say something that inspires you; or any other book.

I see the man inspired world of today and it sucks! And I can see that man got to this point by rejecting the wisdom of God and by not doing the simple thing he asked. And where has it gotten us? How wonderful is it to live in this hellhole? God tells you what to do if you want to inherit the kingdom of God: Treat people like you would like to be treated but we will have none of that. Forget about living forever, I've had enough already, thank God I will die soon. Who would want to exist in this Godless world man has created? And watch out for all those unborn babies, because when they get here they are going to see what you have done to the earth and they are not going to like it at all.

What is it that you think God requires of you? God created the earth and gave you dominion over everything. God didn't tell man to start killing animals and eat them. God gave man dominion over all the earth and they did whatever they wanted to do and that blame God for everything. Man has done whatsoever he has chosen to do and likes to blame God for all their problems. Really now, you don't even think God exists and yet you blame him for your own deficiencies, God warned but you refused to hear or do. The only spirit man has a heart for is this lying deceptive destroying warring spirit we see running rampant in the O.T. and after Christ we go running to make war for the profit of the crusades until today doing much worse damage than then. It was bad in the O.T. It got worse after Christ. And a whole lot worse is today. I wonder what we are doing wrong? And as far as you are concerned, there is no God doing anything, I wonder where the real problem is?

[cupper3]

Originally Posted by auralmack

What do you think inspired men to use 7 days a week? Where did that idea come from? What do you think "Inspired" us to do that? Why does the whole world now keep 7 days a week, religion or no religion? Something must have inspired that.

BBC Religion & Ethics - Why are there seven days in a week?

It was associated with the seven heavenly bodies; the Sun, Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn. For this reason, some believe, marking rituals every seventh-day became important. A seven-day week based on these same celestial bodies was adopted as far away as Japan and ancient China.

Also, same information but expanded here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Week

Does that change your perception? Are you willing to accept real history? Go beyond a confirmation bias of your own?

And if the heart is just a muscle where is the thinking behind the white and red blood cells carrying oxygen and nutrients to every part of the body? So yes, this thinking is beneath or beyond your thinking consciousness. You're not deciding anything it does or doesn't do. You just occupy, and pretty much do as you wish.

Nice try. Evolution clearly shows us the path of development of a heart. There was no "thinking" involved.

And my dictionary still puts the heart center to one's being: 1. Like you said. 2. This organ considered as the seat of life or vital powers, or of thought, feeling, or emotion: to die of a broken heart. 3. The seat of emotions and affections often in contrast to the head as the seat of the intellect: to win a persons heart. 4. Feeling; sensibility; capacity for sympathy: to have no heart. 5. Spirit, courage, or enthusiasm: to take heart. 6. The innermost or middle part of anything...etc. And without this center piece causing the blood to flow with oxygen and food your brain would not be doing any thinking at all...and all the other decisions required that you don't do to keep it going would cease also. What does your mind think when there is no blood flow? Yep, pretty much the centerpiece of our being if you ask me. You could be brain dead and still exist, but without the heart and the blood-flow everything becomes decadent, everything.

The heart is critical to one's life. But that doesn't mean it thinks. Your examples are figures of speech.

So my dictionary is full of metaphorical and allegorical statements and just as guilty as you think the Bible is? And every argument is a circular argument or a broken left off argument and as far as I can tell there is no straight lines in this universe. Take two straight parallel lines and run them until they cross. The word of God inspires men the same way anyone else would do or say something that inspires you; or any other book.

Yes, your dictionary is using figures of speech, and the word salad of your two parallel lines, I have no idea what you mean. Parallel lines by definition do not cross.

I see the man inspired world of today and it sucks! And I can see that man got to this point by rejecting the wisdom of God and by not doing the simple thing he asked. And where has it gotten us? How wonderful is it to live in this hellhole? God tells you what to do if you want to inherit the kingdom of God: Treat people like you would like to be treated but we will have none of that. Forget about living forever, I've had enough already, thank God I will die soon. Who would want to exist in this Godless world man has created? And watch out for all those unborn babies, because when they get here they are going to see what you have done to the earth and they are not going to like it at all.

Sorry you feel that you need an imaginary friend to make your life worthwhile. Some of us will just live the best lives we can during the years we are alive, and then happily become worm food to nutritious some other organism. It is the best way we can give back for all what we have taken from this earth.

What is it that you think God requires of you? God created the earth and gave you dominion over everything. God didn't tell man to start killing animals and eat them. God gave man dominion over all the earth and they did whatever they wanted to do and that blame God for everything. Man has done whatsoever he has chosen to do and likes to blame God for all their problems. Really now, you don't even think God exists and yet you blame him for your own deficiencies, God warned but you refused to hear or do. The only spirit man has a heart for is this lying deceptive destroying warring spirit we see running rampant in the O.T. and after Christ we go running to make war for the profit of the crusades until today doing much worse damage than then. It was bad in the O.T. It got worse after Christ. And a whole lot worse is today. I wonder what we are doing wrong? And as far as you are concerned, there is no God doing anything, I wonder where the real problem is?

Meh, you keep beliven' in your god. The rest of us are happy that you find solace in your imaginary friend. We will live the real life that exists.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

Originally Posted by Vizio

We believe what the individual books of the Bible attest to themselves, and other books. We read it and recognize that it is what it says it is. I'm firmly convinced Romans is an inspired work after spending a semester studying it -- recognizing that for a man in the 1st Century to write it and reference the OT as many times as he did, it's inspired.

Besides that, we can look at the inspired prophecies that came true. Psalm 22 was written about 1000 years before crucifixion, yet it describes crucifixion. We know that there were amazing details of Jesus' birth and his life that were predicted hundreds and thousands of years prior to his living.

I know...none of these will convince you. That's ok--it's not my job to argue you into belief.

Yes, but you believe in things based entirely on faith that they are true. Faith is nothing more than accepting things which have no connection with physical fact or experience. This is essentially as system pf make it up and declare it to be true. For example, declaring that there is a God begins with the assumption that the universe could not possibly just exist naturally on it's own, and must therefore be the result of a creative intelligence. A creative intelligence which exists naturally on it's own. This being assumed, the creative intelligence, henceforth known as God, must necessarily possess certain qualities. God is all powerful, with unlimited abilities (omnipotent). God is all knowing, (omniscient). God is everywhere and is not contained by time (omnipresent). God cannot be seen but dwells in an invisible realm.

This "understanding," this unchallenged assumption, in turn leads to the Christian doctrine that God created all things, including human beings. Humankind and God became estranged however due to Adam and Eve violating God's command not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge. Omnipotent omniscient God created Adam and Eve to be exactly what they were because of His perfect omnipotence, and knowing exactly what they would eventually do, because of His omniscience. He brought Adam and Eve together in the Garden of Eden along with the serpent, whom he also created, knowing without possible error what would occur. When the foreknown event occurred He condemned both sides and their progeny IN PERPETUITY and cast them out of the Garden. Eventually however God relented, and offered humankind access to redemption by sending Jesus, who was in reality God in human form, to Earth to bleed and die in agony as an act of redemption for what Adam and Eve did in the garden. "Why?" Because divine blood had to be shed to redeem humankind from the perpetual condition of reprehensible transgression against HIM they found themselves in due to their original sin in the garden. Why did divine blood have to be shed to redeem mankind? God's game, God's rules. Or to put it into the words of the Christians I was raised by, "God works in mysterious ways." Completely unfathomable in fact. But, hey, that's why He's God.

If any of this is NOT what you assume to be true, then please explain.

Now, to return to the OP, how is all of this NOT simply a case of "The never-ending Preaching of Unsupported Superstitions?" Because all I notice is a series of unsupported assumptions, each one built on top of the other. And ending in the unfathomable.

What can be observed to be true however, is that the universe is made up of energy, and matter is simply one of the forms that energy takes. Rather that assuming that the universe couldn't simply just exist on it's own, what can be directly observed is that energetic bits of energy vibrate at frequencies that we label as positive or negative. In a process known as quantum mechanics these positive or negative bits either attract or repel each other, which in turn drives all change and is responsible for everything that occurs. We also observe that energy can neither be created or destroyed, which indicates that it is eternal. The universe, it would appear, IS perfectly capable of just existing naturally on it's own.

Why then must we begin with the "understanding" that there is a God? And how is this in any way different from simply making an unsupported assumption, and then constructing an entire network of unsupported assumptions, all of it based on that original unsupported assumption? That original "understanding?" And in what way is this system of "make it up and declaring it to be true" superior to direct empirical observation? Assuming of course that one's true objective is discovering whatever the actual truth is, and not simply the result of a desire to fill some deep seated personal emotional need.

[Arach Angle]

I love when they just insert "nothing" and say show me. But when you talk observations, like that arm is there, they just flat out dismiss it.

[omega2xx]

Originally Posted by Texan2008

Let's face it. Christians always have to put themselves in knots to make all this nonsense agree with their faith. I call it backward compatibility. A lot of these verses are so vague, you can read all sorts of things in them. For an all seeing and all knowing being, you would think this creator God would have used much more precise language and specific details. It's one of the reasons why I can't buy the whole Christian BS stuff. An omnipotent creator uses so-called sinful men to communicate in a book and then has to supposedly oversee and influence various meetings of these men to make sure his proper thoughts are put in his so-called communication tool called the Bible. It's so laughable.

All of your opinion are worthless because you do not have ability to understand the Bible. It is actually secularist fundamentalist who put themselves in knots trying to show the Bible is not God's word and that it has contradictions.

[omega2xx]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

It has always been open. I began life as an atheist for 30+ years. My experiences, knowledge, logic and reason are responsible for my current understanding.

I began my life as a Christian 39 years ago. My experiences on both sides of the fence, knowledge, logic and reason are responsible for my current understanding.

Your knowledge, logic and reason are questionable. What experiences are responsible for your current understanding?

[cupper3]

Originally Posted by omega2xx

All of your opinion are worthless because you do not have ability to understand the Bible. It is actually secularist fundamentalist who put themselves in knots trying to show the Bible is not God's word and that it has contradictions.

My comparative religion courses, my reading of the bible and comparing it in two different languages, my reading of an 8 volume concordance on the KJV, my reading of Cantor's history and numerous other books by scholars, not opinion commentators, entitles me to make observations that go far beyond what someone "feels in their heart" or some pastor babbles from the pulpit. They only went to a seminary, and frankly, their knowledge in many cases are skewed towards reiterating what was presented to them, with no critical thinking being implemented.

You, on the other hand, depend on your circular thinking of the bible proving the bible that it is the word of an omni entity.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Does it promote and advocate for the well-being of everyone involved in the Spirit of agape love, then it is inspired by God.

Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28

Geez Louise, it can't get any easier than this...

Thanks! I couldn't agree more!

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

It happens frequently with open minds, less so with closed ones.

Originally Posted by cupper3

And you opened yours when? Welcome to the world of logic, reason and rationality.

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

It has always been open. I began life as an atheist for 30+ years. My experiences, knowledge, logic and reason are responsible for my current understanding.

Originally Posted by omega2xx

I began my life as a Christian 39 years ago. My experiences on both sides of the fence, knowledge, logic and reason are responsible for my current understanding.
Your knowledge, logic and reason are questionable. What experiences are responsible for your current understanding?

The first experience was in deep meditation around age 30+ years old.
I had spent 18+ years trying various meditation techniques and found most of them to be bogus and full of unnecessary mumbo jumbo. I began using biofeedback to attain deeper and deeper states until it happened. I encountered a consciousness that was all-encompassing and eliminated my atheism instantly. I have described it many times but words are inadequate. I spent the next 40+ years studying and learning to try to explain it to my intellect. I succeeded.

[mordant]

Originally Posted by auralmack

What do you think inspired men to use 7 days a week?

What does it matter? If someone had settled on 6 or 8 or 10 days in a week would you be asking the same question? There was every impetus for the entire planet to be on the same calendar and to pick the one that had the most adoption and therefore the least pain and suffering for the fewest people to have to convert from other calendar systems. For all you know, god invented one of the non-Gregorian calendars and we have abandoned his system.

In any case ... what do you think inspired men to use the decimal numbering system rather than octal? Huh? Coincidence? I think not! What do you think inspired men to adopt the Western musical scale, and do you deny that serialism is the work of the devil and a misuse of that scale? Why do most people eat three meals a day instead of four? Why does everyone default to sleeping at night instead of during the day? What inspired men to put the red light at the top of traffic lights? Such amazing complexity and uniformity can't just have evolved!

I pray that you will acknowledge the truth one day -- that the Flying Spaghetti Monster decreed all these things to be so!

[The Last Amalekite 1Sam15]

Originally Posted by Vizio

You realize that not all Christians think that way, right?

That's the difference between TRUE CHRISTIANS and CHRIno (xian in name only).

What flavor are you? True or Chrino?