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Well, It's clear you didn't really read my post, but never mind. So long as you are happy and so are we, doing what we do, and never mind what effect (or not) we may be having.
Lots of things cause bones to be out of joint. Falling off cliffs, being run over by oxcarts, being beaten by thugs with clubs. Not to mention that we speak metaphorically of being "out of joint" which is probably what is going on here. It is just a bunch of flowery ways of saying "this situation is horrible to me and I feel awful about it".
It is simply an objective fact that lots of people are abandoned and persecuted, suffer physically without broken bones, and are surrounded by real or metaphorical dogs. The vast majority of people who suffer those things are not being crucified, and are not Jesus, and are not Jesus being crucified. You are simply seeing an association that isn't warranted.
So it goes with prophecy generally.
By the way, me making this observation hasn't got anything to do with my desire or lack thereof to believe (and real belief has nothing to do with desire anyway, but with my perception of the probability that a thing is true based on available evidence and logical argument). And the validity of the observation has nothing to do with my lack of desire to believe, even if that WERE the case.
What you may be confusing here is that YOU seeing this in an overdetermined way as referring ONLY to a particular event that happened to a particular person, reflects YOUR desire TO believe. I on the other hand am interested in what the passage actually can be safely said to refer to. Knowing, as I do, that the Psalms are poetry, and are highly symbolic and evocative rather than literal, I see it as reflections on the human condition and spirituality written thousands of years ago, which has been repurposed as prophecy by well meaning folks such as yourself.
Let's face it. Christians always have to put themselves in knots to make all this nonsense agree with their faith. I call it backward compatibility. A lot of these verses are so vague, you can read all sorts of things in them. For an all seeing and all knowing being, you would think this creator God would have used much more precise language and specific details. It's one of the reasons why I can't buy the whole Christian BS stuff. An omnipotent creator uses so-called sinful men to communicate in a book and then has to supposedly oversee and influence various meetings of these men to make sure his proper thoughts are put in his so-called communication tool called the Bible. It's so laughable.
Well, It's clear you didn't really read my post, but never mind. So long as you are happy and so are we, doing what we do, and never mind what effect (or not) we may be having.
Yes. HAPPINESS...that is paramount. I strive to always be happy.
Life has no "rewind" button...I'm gonna enjoy every bit of it the best I can...cuz once a second is gone, it's gone.
Now, what makes me happy is a bit twisted...but that's another issue. HaHa.
For an all seeing and all knowing being, you would think this creator God would have used much more precise language and specific details.
Yes that would be REAL prophecy. Names, dates, places.
One valid point that was made about prophecy back in my daze at Bible Institute was that prophecy only makes sense to readers after it's fulfilled. It is a testimony to THOSE readers, and perhaps a mystery to those who might read it before it's fulfilled. The irony of this observation was lost on them, apparently. Of course it would only make sense after the fact, because that's just what Christians do: they back-fit subsequent events to existing texts.
Another thing we were taught is that prophetic passages often have multiple significance. The "surface meaning" can exist alongside a prophetic significance, and a prediction can be partially fulfilled by one event and later completely fulfilled by another. This is unwitting testimony to the vague and highly subjective nature of prophecy.
Prophecy is literally just people doing what people do: perceiving patterns where they want or need to see them.
Yes that would be REAL prophecy. Names, dates, places.
One valid point that was made about prophecy back in my daze at Bible Institute was that prophecy only makes sense to readers after it's fulfilled. It is a testimony to THOSE readers, and perhaps a mystery to those who might read it before it's fulfilled. The irony of this observation was lost on them, apparently. Of course it would only make sense after the fact, because that's just what Christians do: they back-fit subsequent events to existing texts.
Another thing we were taught is that prophetic passages often have multiple significance. The "surface meaning" can exist alongside a prophetic significance, and a prediction can be partially fulfilled by one event and later completely fulfilled by another. This is unwitting testimony to the vague and highly subjective nature of prophecy.
Prophecy is literally just people doing what people do: perceiving patterns where they want or need to see them.
One can make that ascertation about ANY prediction: religious, analytic, sports, science.
After Darwin, many said 'of course'!
Kentucky basketball in 2014-2015? Of course best team ever... Till Wisconsin.
I've been wrong on my data analytics. Right more than wrong but I'm fallible.
It's human nature, and prophecy/prediction is part of our makeup.
There is an old saying, one I now try, not always successfully, to live by: I knew everything, until I didn't.
One can make that ascertation about ANY prediction: religious, analytic, sports, science.
After Darwin, many said 'of course'!
Kentucky basketball in 2014-2015? Of course best team ever... Till Wisconsin.
I've been wrong on my data analytics. Right more than wrong but I'm fallible.
It's human nature, and prophecy/prediction is part of our makeup.
There is an old saying, one I now try, not always successfully, to live by: I knew everything, until I didn't.
Not so much the science. Scientific predictions are made on scientific theory and are very specific - nothing vague and most often turn out as predicted. No guesswork involved.
One can make that ascertation about ANY prediction: religious, analytic, sports, science.
After Darwin, many said 'of course'!
Kentucky basketball in 2014-2015? Of course best team ever... Till Wisconsin.
I've been wrong on my data analytics. Right more than wrong but I'm fallible.
It's human nature, and prophecy/prediction is part of our makeup.
There is an old saying, one I now try, not always successfully, to live by: I knew everything, until I didn't.
Of course "hindsight is 20/20" and perceptions are malleable. That is kind of my point. As with the Psalms reference under discussion, many "prophecies" weren't even penned as predictions. They are just made to serve as predictions because people make an after-the-fact association. In other cases they are clearly "predictions", but so vague as to be meaningless templates for whatever people in the future want to see as "fulfillment". The classic one that many Christians speak of is that in the last days there shall be "wars and rumors of wars" or "the love of many will grow cold". You can say that about virtually any moment in human history. Because there are always wars or at least rumors of wars (that last qualifier clearly designed to make the prediction work even during peacetime) and there are always cold, unloving people. There are always negative things going on that you can focus on and see as evil portents. Prophecy fulfilled!
Prophecy was never meant to be Divination, mordant. It is ALWAYS after-the-fact.
That's correct. That's why prophecy is of no consequence, and divination, which would actually be useful and an impressive demonstration of divine power, is not only absent, but declared sinful.
We believe what the individual books of the Bible attest to themselves, ...
...which, in plain English means - the Bible is true because the Bible says it's true.
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Besides that, we can look at the inspired prophecies that came true.
Care to give say, five of these 'inspired prophecies' that can be shown (extant of the Bible) to have come true.
...and what say you regarding the prophecies that failed miserably?
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