Putting Women in Their Place - a Biblical Perspective Promulgated by These Christians (translation, genesis)
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They are victims of the strange idea that the Bible IS communication FROM God rather than perceptions of men ABOUT God... makes them do strange things.
The one about wife, mother and homemaker. I mean I work too, but I have chosen to be a wife and mother and keep a neat home, because clutter makes me curl up in a little ball and pull all my hair out. If things aren't neat, here comes Mommy with a trash can, EVERYTHING OUT.
Yeah...it was tough being a woman back then. It still is...depending on where you are.
Many of the women I know do whatever they please. They have the men in subjection to them...just about, if not actually, groveling.
They make big money and live life at the pinnacle of modern technology, with every comfort and convenience. They call the shots.
Times have changed for many women...bigtime changed!
OMG.
I am so jealous.
Where are these women, so that I might sit at their feet and learn from them?
Where are these women, so that I might sit at their feet and learn from them?
They are everywhere...in most Western society.
Offices, hospitals, schools, airlines, government, the arts, etc. They are entrepreneurs, skilled tradeswomen, executives, professionals, artists, etc.
They are not stymied by any of that stuff written in the OP. That describes the plight of women from that era, and that currently live in oppressive cultures that supress women.
The situation gets better and better all the time for women in this world. Those gender suppressive ways effect a smaller and smaller percentage.
MOF...I doubt you have ever been oppressed or supressed to any degree. No need to be jealous...you ARE one of "those women" I noted.
I bet you have always had sufficient financial resources, had plenty of choice as to how you lived your life, a choice of suitors, and live with most all available modern comforts. I might be wrong about that...but I doubt it.
I can't believe this type of stuff still exists, but then, if one is a fundie, hey, this is good.
This blogger is definitely being a sexist pig. He would do well to heed the numerous proverbs that he senselessly ignores, one springing to mind immediately that should please some:
The mouth of the righteous man produces wisdom,
while the perverse tongue is cut off.
(Proverbs 10:31 AB Fox)
I don't think many would disagree that his words are "perverse".
But by applying that proverb to him, I may be committing the very same error which he commits: taking a proverb/passage out of it's Ancient Near Eastern/Graeco-Roman context and trying to ram it into the modern world. It's pretty obvious, as some have pointed out, that the status of women in the ancient world was not exactly ideal. They were essentially property of a man when married, and when unmarried they were still under the authority of a male (a relative, usually). As such, must all of these passages be read. They should not and can not be applied to modern social relationships - at least, not in the West (I cannot speak for what goes on in the more "backwards" cultures that still exist, such as most of the Middle East).
One of the few redeeming qualities of early Christianity is that it appealed and spoke to all people, regardless of their social status or sex. This was a powerful movement for women, and many of the anti-woman statements of the Greek New Testament are extra-Biblical - they were added after the fact. This is not an apologetic for the authors, it is simply a fairly well-known aspect of how some of the New Testament books were edited.
What burns me is that some of the proverbs that he lists are not specifically anti-woman. The entire collection warns against foolish behavior and the dangers of surface appearance. I do not take the following proverb as sexist, but as more of a comment on trophy-wives - it certainly isn't a comment on "when and where to speak":
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3
She knows when and where to speak and when to hold her tongue
“As a jewel of gold in a swine’s snout, so is a fair woman which is without discretion.” – Proverbs 11:22 (KJV)
The proverb is difficult to parse meanings to. A more more modern rendering will yield:
A gold ring in a pig's snout:
a beautiful woman lacking good sense.
(Prov 11:22 AB Fox)
Rather than interpreting this as "she knows when and where to speak and when to hold her tongue", a simpler reading suggests that "beauty is not enough". Trophy wives existed in the ancient world just as they do today, but I think we can all agree that they (and their husbands) are the butts of jokes for a reason. I suggest trophy wife due to previous imagery in Proverbs (and other ANE literature) that equate women as jewels adorning their husbands. Yes, I realize this is a sexist reading dependent on the notion that women were property, but I am not trying to sanitize the text. It says what it says, and we can disagree with it. Proverbs criticizes all types of people who "lack good sense" - not just women. This particular proverb seems to criticize the woman who relies on her beauty alone, and that critique should resonate with moderns on some level, I would think.
With that said, while there are many passages warning young men from "strange" or "senseless" women in the Book of Proverbs, one of the main components of the book is of a quasi-divine female figure usually called "Lady Wisdom" who they should strive to know and learn from. This is, I believe, a remnant of goddess-worship and possibly related to the goddess Asherah, who was probably worshipped as the wife of Yahweh (God) at one point. But I won't delve down that deep rabbit-hole today. Volumes have been written on the subject. Suffice it to say, that many later interpreters were uncomfortable with this pro-female text (even if that female was a divinized or ideal woman) and perverted "Lady Wisdom" into a pre-existent "Jesus Christ" in some bizarre twist of crappy exegesis. THANKS, whoever wrote the Gospel of John....get off the drugs.
The above is not an apologetic for the text, and certainly not for the blogger. He is taking ancient ideas of social inequality and trying to force them into modern relationships, wielding this collection of ancient texts as some sort of Divinely Inspired God-Text that he hopes holds some authority over believers. Most of us know better, but as Cupper pointed out: it's a feast for fundies. I just happen to enjoy some of these ancient texts, and cannot abide it when they lost some of their wonderful literary beauty because some Fundamentalist tries to make them relevant to us today for all the wrong reasons!
They are everywhere...in most Western society.
Offices, hospitals, schools, airlines, government, the arts, etc. They are entrepreneurs, skilled tradeswomen, executives, professionals, artists, etc.
They are not stymied by any of that stuff written in the OP. That describes the plight of women from that era, and that currently live in oppressive cultures that supress women.
The situation gets better and better all the time for women in this world. Those gender suppressive ways effect a smaller and smaller percentage.
MOF...I doubt you have ever been oppressed or supressed to any degree. No need to be jealous...you ARE one of "those women" I noted.
I bet you have always had sufficient financial resources, had plenty of choice as to how you lived your life, a choice of suitors, and live with most all available modern comforts. I might be wrong about that...but I doubt it.
Sometimes I warm to you old mate It's far from perfect and much still to do, but far, far better than it was and far, far better than the ghastly society longed for by those such as the article quoted in Cupper's OP.
So, how would you put those passages (they ARE real) in the context you think they are intended to be?
I would ignore anyone whose theology is as twisted as the blogger on the website you linked. Don't feed the trolls.
And don't parrot the trolls to spread misinformation.
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