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Just to be contrary, wouldn't a school trip to this ark be appropriate under a sociology or psychology class program? You know, to show the kids just how delusional people can become under indoctrination. Like how dangerous and damaging indoctrinating kids can be? I'm sure there must be many kids who have no idea what fantasies people actually believe to be fact.
You could do that perfctly well with a slide show and without having to shell out 40 clams a head plus parking to rubberneck around this wooden temple to Tosh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Well that's pretty hypocritical. So it's ok to push the ideology on school kids that their religious beliefs are just psychological disorders?
You made me write and cancel three replies.
1. You are leaping up and protesting at something hypothetical posited just to see whether it would be permissible as an atheist education trip. You seem desperate to find something...anything...that you can use to accuse us of hypocrisy. And never mind that Tuo Quoque does not excuse Ken Hamm from waste (at least) of public money.
2. If it can be supported with convincing and solid scientific evidence that the claims of religion are not credible, then it would follow that the belief in such myths were a product of the human mind and indeed delusional. Then it might indeed be a valid educational program -not so much as to argue that myths were delusional, but religious myth as just one aspect of a class on human delusion.
3 Can't remember what it was, now But clearly a few slides of elephant -headed gods and winged horses should suffice, without a field trip to the site of Hamm's Ark.
"Yes, kids, this is where it stood, before the good people of Williamsville demolished it and used the wood to burn the Creation museum to the ground.."
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 07-10-2016 at 08:56 AM..
I would like to take this opportunity to remind some posters , and perhaps inform others that didn't see the thread , that we gave the creationists an entire thread devoted to them showing the flaws of evolution and how it was bogus .
Not one person did . Most , if not all in fact, never even tried . They largely avoided the thread , some came in to make some disparaging remarks about the thread, but none offered a single shred of proof for the silliness they like to spout in other threads like this one .
Not Eusie .
Not Jeff .
Not Vizio.
They are all great at running off at the mouth in threads like this, but when put on the spot and challenged to back their assertions up, they run and hide , just as they did on the thread that was devoted exclusively to them showing how evolution was wrong .
Last edited by wallflash; 07-10-2016 at 11:26 AM..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash
I would like to take this opportunity to remind some posters , and perhaps inform others that didn't see the thread , that we gave the creationists an entire thread devoted to them showing the flaws of evolution and how it was bogus .
Not one person did . Most , if not all in fact, never even tried . They largely avoided the thread , some came in to make some disparaging remarks about the thread, but none offered a single shred of proof for the silliness they like to spout in other threads like this one .
Not Eusie .
Not Jeff .
Not Vizio.
They are all great at running off at the mouth in threads like this, but when put on the spot and challenged to back their assertions up, they run and hide , just as they did on the thread that was devoted exclusively to them showing how evolution was wrong .
You're correct. I even had subscribed to that thread to see what reaction there would be. Nada.
I would like to take this opportunity to remind some posters , and perhaps inform others that didn't see the thread , that we gave the creationists an entire thread devoted to them showing the flaws of evolution and how it was bogus .
Not one person did . Most , if not all in fact, never even tried . They largely avoided the thread , some came in to make some disparaging remarks about the thread, but none offered a single shred of proof for the silliness they like to spout in other threads like this one .
Not Eusie .
Not Jeff .
Not Vizio.
They are all great at running off at the mouth in threads like this, but when put on the spot and challenged to back their assertions up, they run and hide , just as they did on the thread that was devoted exclusively to them showing how evolution was wrong .
You're correct. I even had subscribed to that thread to see what reaction there would be. Nada.
I remember that. Eusebius had a marathon go on the 'Transitional species' thread, but all he did on that one was attack evolution theory. That was his evidence for Creation. That evolution theory was a "fairy tale" or lies or a Faith based fantasy. The fact is they can only snipe at Evolution theory in hopes to discredit it, but they really don't like to put forward any case of their own to be pulled apart.
I remember that. Eusebius had a marathon go on the 'Transitional species' thread, but all he did on that one was attack evolution theory. That was his evidence for Creation. That evolution theory was a "fairy tale" or lies or a Faith based fantasy. The fact is they can only snipe at Evolution theory in hopes to discredit it, but they really don't like to put forward any case of their own to be pulled apart.
Better to say he might have attempted to attack evolution theory . All he does is claim " it's a lie", without support . He is totally incapable of presenting any evidence from credible sources to support his sniping , since none exist .
Jeff does nothing but complain except when challenged to a one on one debate about the subject, at which point he admits not having enough knowledge on the science to debate it .
Viz admits that even if you prove it to him scientifically he will still not believe it because the Bible tells him different .
Eusie is the Donald Trump of CD and simply says crazy shiite and makes his own "facts" up as he goes , without regard to the truthfulness of them or seemingly whether he portrays himself as a buffoon or not .
I would like to take this opportunity to remind some posters , and perhaps inform others that didn't see the thread , that we gave the creationists an entire thread devoted to them showing the flaws of evolution and how it was bogus .
Not one person did . Most , if not all in fact, never even tried . They largely avoided the thread , some came in to make some disparaging remarks about the thread, but none offered a single shred of proof for the silliness they like to spout in other threads like this one .
Not Eusie .
Not Jeff .
Not Vizio.
They are all great at running off at the mouth in threads like this, but when put on the spot and challenged to back their assertions up, they run and hide , just as they did on the thread that was devoted exclusively to them showing how evolution was wrong .
Well, this has never really happened, anywhere, ever. People such as this are happy to make a blanket claim like "evolution is a lie" or "there is no science behind evolution" but of course such claims can't be substantiated.
It would be like saying the sun isn't gaseous.
Another question I have asked repeatedly to both jeffbase and Eusebius--direct, honest, simple question--that neither they nor anyone else has even thought about answering (which would, of course, require thought, which may explain things) is:
"Why are you so invested in the idea that evolution cannot be real?"
Honestly, why is this? Just because a person accepts the facts of evolution as real, it doesn't automatically preclude the existence of a creator or the act of creation.
It's patently obvious whenever someone attempts to argue against the facts of evolution that they fail to understand even the most basic principles of evolution, and often those of science in general.
This is where it becomes so evident that fundamentalism is the most shallow, weak and rigid form of faith and belief possible. It can't countenance or withstand the most plain and obvious evidence or questions.
Those who claim to "know" the answers to the biggest questions ever posed are so immersed in their mindset--"my daddy believed this, my pastor preaches it and I'm told The Bible says it and must be interpreted only this way, so that's the way it is, and that's what is right, therefore everything else MUST be wrong!"--have stopped all inellectual processes in that area. They feel all the answers are determined and found in one place and their paper-thin faith rejects any additional spiritual quest or growth or investigation. Their minds begin to atrophy from lack of curiosity or activity.
These same people will claim that science also states it has all the answers, etc. But of course this just further illustrates they lack the most basic, kindergarten-level understandind of what science is and how it functions.
Better to say he might have attempted to attack evolution theory . All he does is claim " it's a lie", without support . He is totally incapable of presenting any evidence from credible sources to support his sniping , since none exist .
Jeff does nothing but complain except when challenged to a one on one debate about the subject, at which point he admits not having enough knowledge on the science to debate it .
Viz admits that even if you prove it to him scientifically he will still not believe it because the Bible tells him different .
Eusie is the Donald Trump of CD and simply says crazy shiite and makes his own "facts" up as he goes , without regard to the truthfulness of them or seemingly whether he portrays himself as a buffoon or not .
If this is all true then I accept Vizio for honesty as his belief does not allow him to accept evolution. Eusebius makes fun if some misrepresention of evolution and neither him or Jeff are the least bit interested in even knowing enough about the theory to be able to present a simple argument to support their claims that it supposedly a lie.
Still waiting for any justification for a school field trip to this site other than an end of school and we don't have anything better to do rationale. The admission price is steep so is it safe to assume that the school trips would have been free admission?
Better to say he might have attempted to attack evolution theory . All he does is claim " it's a lie", without support . He is totally incapable of presenting any evidence from credible sources to support his sniping , since none exist .
Jeff does nothing but complain except when challenged to a one on one debate about the subject, at which point he admits not having enough knowledge on the science to debate it .
Viz admits that even if you prove it to him scientifically he will still not believe it because the Bible tells him different .
Eusie is the Donald Trump of CD and simply says crazy shiite and makes his own "facts" up as he goes , without regard to the truthfulness of them or seemingly whether he portrays himself as a buffoon or not .
Ah, well, I have seen Eusebius at his best and he is the best Creationism has here. Sometimes at the end of a long debate, Eusebius will not be inclined to get into details but will just support his position with a succinct "Liars", "Baloney", or "I'm right". It doesn't mean that he hasn't got a lot more supportive evidence to call on, like videos by people who don't actually understand evolution, cut and paste passages from scripture and articles he hasn't read or understood. It's not much better, but there's a lot more of it.
Well, this has never really happened, anywhere, ever. People such as this are happy to make a blanket claim like "evolution is a lie" or "there is no science behind evolution" but of course such claims can't be substantiated.
It would be like saying the sun isn't gaseous.
Another question I have asked repeatedly to both jeffbase and Eusebius--direct, honest, simple question--that neither they nor anyone else has even thought about answering (which would, of course, require thought, which may explain things) is:
"Why are you so invested in the idea that evolution cannot be real?"
Honestly, why is this? Just because a person accepts the facts of evolution as real, it doesn't automatically preclude the existence of a creator or the act of creation.
It's patently obvious whenever someone attempts to argue against the facts of evolution that they fail to understand even the most basic principles of evolution, and often those of science in general.
This is where it becomes so evident that fundamentalism is the most shallow, weak and rigid form of faith and belief possible. It can't countenance or withstand the most plain and obvious evidence or questions.
Those who claim to "know" the answers to the biggest questions ever posed are so immersed in their mindset--"my daddy believed this, my pastor preaches it and I'm told The Bible says it and must be interpreted only this way, so that's the way it is, and that's what is right, therefore everything else MUST be wrong!"--have stopped all inellectual processes in that area. They feel all the answers are determined and found in one place and their paper-thin faith rejects any additional spiritual quest or growth or investigation. Their minds begin to atrophy from lack of curiosity or activity.
These same people will claim that science also states it has all the answers, etc. But of course this just further illustrates they lack the most basic, kindergarten-level understandind of what science is and how it functions.
Evolution throws a significant dent into literalism , and also the entire idea of needing Christ to save us . If we are merely advanced primates who slowly evolved up from earlier primates , then where does sin come into the picture , and if there is no sin then how does this affect the person of Christ and his role as the Savior of the World ? Creationists rightly understand that to admit to evolution calls into question the entire religion of Christianity as a salvic religion in which God saved the world from the penalty of sin through Christ .
Francis Collins , an evangelical Christian and scientist, handles this somehow in his view of theistic evolution; his book is on my list to read but as of now I'm not sure how he handles the issue of sin and punishment in conjunction with evolution .
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You could do that perfctly well with a slide show and without having to shell out 40 clams a head plus parking to rubberneck around this wooden temple to Tosh.
You made me write and cancel three replies.
