FFRF: NO school trips to Ken Ham's "Ark". (bible, quote)
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The Sistine chapel is an artwork. The Hammy Ark is a work of Creationist propaganda; nothing more. Creationism is not permitted in a science class, and indeed, since it was shown to be merely religion dressed in a Lab coat, isn't appropriate in school at all, and you can't get around it by taking the class to the Creationism.
There is nothing to stop people going, and I am sure the ever - ingenious Creationist teachers will find a way of getting around it, but the marker is down. You don't do it as an overt school trip.
Petunia straightened Richard out admirably. It was a matter of wonder that it needed to be done. I really wonder whether the Believers properly read these articles or stop to understand them. I think they just get a flash of: "Christians stopped from doing something religious" and they immediately start screaming.
That's just your interpretation. The Sistine displays images of Christianity from the Bible. This ark is an image of Christianity from the Bible. It can be admired from a purely secular perspective, but Christian haters are foaming at the mouth over this thing. Really sad that such organizations can not devote their money and energy into improving real problems like the mental health of students instead of denying Billy a harmless school field trip.
I think Christians should band together and tell the state run schools that they are not allowed to force their anti-religious views down the throats of all the students, evolution being one of them.
I think Christians should band together and tell the state run schools that they are not allowed to force their anti-religious views down the throats of all the students, evolution being one of them.
Good luck with that one...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
That's just your interpretation. The Sistine displays images of Christianity from the Bible. This ark is an image of Christianity from the Bible. It can be admired from a purely secular perspective, but Christian haters are foaming at the mouth over this thing. Really sad that such organizations can not devote their money and energy into improving real problems like the mental health of students instead of denying Billy a harmless school field trip.
I don't know what the Christian haters are doing. I only know that those who hate the idea of Creationist Garbage replacing science in the schools are alarmed at such attempts and welcome the fact that the US Law concurs and is willing to put up a hand at every effort by the Creationists to get around it.
Hamm's Ark and the Sistine chapel are not at all the same thing. There is no objection to Christianity and even Creationism being taught as a subject- along with other religions, nor Christianity or the Bible as literature and Myth - along with the others, or at least the only objection would come from the Christians who would only want their own religion (and denominational doctrinal interpretation) taught.
Nor would there be any problem with religious subjects in the art class - whether Christian, Hindu, Pharonic or Pagan Greek. Would there? And if there is nothing in the Sistine chapel but Biblical images, ok - that is still art, just as if there was a school trip to Madurai or Chitchen Itza...if the Christian Religious Iconoclasts haven't obliterated it) Pagan to see Hindu, Mayan or Buddhist temples. In fact on a trip around the Vatican they'd probably see a lot of Pagan art, too.
But with Hamm's Ark, there is little in the way of Art. It is there for one reason and one reason only - to persuade people that Genesis is actually believable. It is not even Christianity, since many Christians can see that Genesis is Myth. It is purely a cult of Genesis -literalism. And the sooner public money is no longer wasted on this tripe the better.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 07-07-2016 at 09:48 AM..
That's just your interpretation. The Sistine displays images of Christianity from the Bible. This ark is an image of Christianity from the Bible. It can be admired from a purely secular perspective, but Christian haters are foaming at the mouth over this thing. Really sad that such organizations can not devote their money and energy into improving real problems like the mental health of students instead of denying Billy a harmless school field trip.
Name a public school that funded a trip to the Sistine Chapel.
Those trips are privately funded. Kids raise money themselves. They seek donations from friends and family. They hold bake sales, car washes, auctions and such. Quite often a business will provide matching funds.
I have donated to plenty of those trips for students, including church groups. None of those trips used public schools, or public funding.
Field trips cost taxpayer dollars. You want smaller government? Take your family on a trip to the Ark, and pay for it out of your own money rather than have me subsidize you.
Just to clarify---are there actual, alleged adults in the year 2016 who are here espousing the belief that the Bible is 100% historically accurate? I just want to make sure of this. Because, wow.
...This ark is an image of Christianity from the Bible. It can be admired from a purely secular perspective...
Except this is part of the "Creation Museum." Nothing there is touted as secular or mythical or symbolic or allegorical, which, of course, the story of Noah and the Ark clearly is (and this makes it no less beautiful or important.)
People who go to this museum aren't encouraged to ask questions or think for themselves (which children should never cease doing); rather things like the Ark diorama/display are presented as factual. That's nonsense.
We should remember: there is no such thing as "creation science." There is absolutely no form of science whatsoever that is a part of, or has a part in, creationism of any stripe, unless you care to include theology and philosophy in the sciences which may be involved.
None of this means there absolutely, unequivocally is no "creator" or some kind of deity or deities. It may well be that we and the cosmos were "created" by something, in some sense. There's no proof of this whatsoever, but I cannot claim to know. Certainly there is no more reason to believe that the God of Abraham and holy texts concerning Yahweh are real and actual and valid than to believe the same of Odin, Zeus, Ba'al or Vishnu. Every religion has its myths, many of which are majestic, mysterious and wonderful things full of beauty and frequently "truth" of a variety different than "fact"--a type of truth I personally consider more indelible, more important and deeper than mere fact.
The fact that much of The Bible and other sacred writings of other cultures aren't literal historical accounts (granted many have a basis in real events but are then mythologized) doesn't make them any less meaningful.
That's just your interpretation. The Sistine displays images of Christianity from the Bible. This ark is an image of Christianity from the Bible.
Many historic works of art depict religious themes. That's not why they are art, but it certainly does not stop them from being art.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
It can be admired from a purely secular perspective, but Christian haters are foaming at the mouth over this thing. Really sad that such organizations can not devote their money and energy into improving real problems like the mental health of students instead of denying Billy a harmless school field trip.
No one's "denying" Billy squat. Billy attends public school in order to get a basic education, even if his family can not pay for said basic education. That's what public school is for. It does not exist to indoctrinate children into any particular religion.
If this topic upsets you so much, put your money where your mouth is. Go on a personal crusade to take local school children to Ken Ham's theme park, on your own dime, and when school is not in session. There is certainly nothing stopping you.
I think Christians should band together and tell the state run schools that they are not allowed to force their anti-religious views down the throats of all the students, evolution being one of them.
Private school and home school remain legitimate choices for anyone who objects to public schools.
Just to clarify---are there actual, alleged adults in the year 2016 who are here espousing the belief that the Bible is 100% historically accurate? I just want to make sure of this. Because, wow.
Trust me..I do assure you it is true..I don't mean the Bible, I mean the literalists. N.B avoid 100% as our craftier apologists will try to wrongfoot you on a technical nit pick about obvious metaphors just to scrape a cheap point.
You already subsidize Christians through Obamacare.
Does Obamacare extend to taking busloads of kids to museums? Have you ever utilized your health care to get a break on going on a field trip?
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Good luck with that one...
