FFRF: NO school trips to Ken Ham's "Ark". (mythology, Christian)
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No other species creates art, music, writing and distinct languages. Animals operate on instinct.
Lol....tell that to the linguists who study whales, dolphins and elephants. Each use language specific to their species to communicate.
Chimpanzees wage war. Birds use tools (sticks and reeds) to fish. Chimps use tools to reach into ant holes. (Ants being a tasty treat for chimps.) Dogs mourn the deaths of their owners. An elephant can recognize people they have not seen for decades. They have been observed, in the wild, using sticks to draw designs in the dirt. California grey whales use music to communicate within the pod.
The arrogance displayed by those who believe only human beings are capable of language, planning, and emotion is, however, limited to humans.
Last edited by DewDropInn; 07-07-2016 at 07:10 PM..
Well with that logic, a trip to the Sistine Chapel would be a violation. This is getting really stupid. A trip to see a building is not establishing religion.
No, but a school-funded field-trip to a religious building that was constructed specifically to endorse a particular religion is against the law.
Michelangelo painted the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, so a visit could reasonably be considered a lesson in art appreciation. It's also an important element of history, because of its age and the aforementioned painted ceiling.
On the other hand, a Creationist museum, by definition, is built to endorse and promote Creationism, which is an entirely religious topic (and, as far as I know, a topic that is specific to certain brands of Christianity). It dismisses the scientific process in favor of an entirely theological conclusion, which is neither scientific by any definition nor relevant to any classes save comparative religion.
Nobody has said that visits by the general public are forbidden; the FFRF has merely established that a school may not fund or require a visit as part of a student's education.
Lol....tell that to the linguists who study whales, dolphins and elephants. Each use language specific to their species to communicate.
Chimpanzees wage war. Birds use tools (sticks and reeds) to fish. Chimps use tools to reach into ant holes. (Ants being a tasty treat for chimps.) Dogs mourn the deaths of their owners. An elephant can recognize people they have not seen for decades.
The arrogance displayed by those who believe only human beings are capable of language, planning, and emotion is, however, limited to humans.
All examples of instinct, not individual reasoning, personality or morality. Dogs love their owners mainly because of the wolf pack instinct.
All examples of instinct, not individual reasoning, personality or morality. Dogs love their owners mainly because of the wolf pack instinct.
Such lines of reasoning, taken to their ultimate conclusion, justify notions that animals don't suffer, or love, or have feelings, or exhibit loyalty and devotion. So be careful where you go with that thinking.
All examples of instinct, not individual reasoning, personality or morality.
So you know more than the thousands of scientists, linguists and biologists who have actually been in the field studying chimps, elephants, whales..... Their conclusions are all wrong but you have the scoop and know the truth.
My goodness. How has Jane Goodall not heard about you and brought you on board as an expert consultant? It would have saved her a lot of time and trouble if she knew there was a fundamentalist in Texas who is an expert on chimpanzees.
So you know more than the thousands of scientists, linguists and biologists who have actually been in the field studying chimps, elephants, whales..... Their conclusions are all wrong but you have the scoop and know the truth.
My goodness. How has Jane Goodall not heard about you and brought you on board as an expert consultant? It would have saved her a lot of time and trouble if she knew there was a fundamentalist in Texas who is an expert on chimpanzees.
I have no problem with a person believing in a god but when they use that belief to make them sound like an expert in a subject that they know little about is when they make my skin crawl. I am not sure how much instinct is involved in solving mutistep problems like the one that ravens are able to complete sucessfully. But that is part of the wonder of the secular world, a world open 5o religious people as well, at least for those willing to look at some things without it having to be forced into their religious view. Many great religious people have and are able to do so.
Some authors have speculated at the role that dogs played in our survival and four to flourish as a species. I 5hink this makes our story richer not poorer. People like Hamm lessen not enhances the story of humans.
All examples of instinct, not individual reasoning, personality or morality. Dogs love their owners mainly because of the wolf pack instinct.
Oh I don't know about that so much. My dog loved me because I'm great guy. Do you think I loved my dog because of my pack instincts? Dogs have been known to visit their masters grave for years. Wolves don't do that, not in the pack nor individually.
As Dew puts it;
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn
What a tremendously sad belief. I'm guessing you've never known the love of a faithful dog.
My dog has stayed with me in my heart for twenty years. Now that is a faithful dog!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
All examples of instinct, not individual reasoning, personality or morality. Dogs love their owners mainly because of the wolf pack instinct.
My dog had better morals than some people here on this very forum. For starters, he never hated gays.
Lol....tell that to the linguists who study whales, dolphins and elephants. Each use language specific to their species to communicate.
Chimpanzees wage war. Birds use tools (sticks and reeds) to fish. Chimps use tools to reach into ant holes. (Ants being a tasty treat for chimps.) Dogs mourn the deaths of their owners. An elephant can recognize people they have not seen for decades. They have been observed, in the wild, using sticks to draw designs in the dirt. California grey whales use music to communicate within the pod.
The arrogance displayed by those who believe only human beings are capable of language, planning, and emotion is, however, limited to humans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
All examples of instinct, not individual reasoning, personality or morality. Dogs love their owners mainly because of the wolf pack instinct.
You have no experience with animals at all if you do not think they have personalities.
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