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I had a pet bird that could reason. That bird was an eye opener. I had no idea just how smart birds can be. Chickens not so much but my chicken knew how to ask for earthworms to be dug for her. I wish I had made a video of her doing that. But chickens are pretty dumb. My myna bird on the other hand was smart and playful and cheeky (what fun!) And birds do dream! OK, so they don't do math and intellectual stuff but just look at the size of their brain. It's tiny! I would give it wine or cheese as per it's request (answer to my question actually). It would come when called and once said "no". Amazing experience.
You have no experience with animals at all if you do not think they have personalities.
I've had plenty of experiences growing up with dogs and cats. Guess what, they pretty much all act the same! If I want a friendly energetic dog, I go get a lab because guess what, they pretty much all act the same. A room of 10 human beings vs a room of 10 dogs of the same breed is not even remotely equivalent when gauging distinct personality traits.
Why should it be? No one is demanding that the students accept the story as myth or truth. It's no different than if I took a field trip to see statues of the Greek Gods. It wouldn't ruffle my feathers one bit. Atheists are so incredibly intolerant of other people's beliefs yet have no problem shoving secular garbage onto innocent minds.
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Originally Posted by Petunia 100
Oh? Can you point to a website maintained by the builders of the statues which states their purpose in building the statues is to convert people to their religion?
I wonder if he seriously expects us to believe his feathers wouldn't be ruffled if he went with his school to see these statues in a place where they were touted as representations of actual deities. Hypocrisy at its finest.
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Originally Posted by ElizaTeall
Yes, and when Christianity is classified as mythology, a public school field trip to Noah's Ark, won't ruffle my feathers one bit.
Hear, hear.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Then your side should try learning to have a civil discussion without resorting to snide remarks. It's cheap, lame, and PATHETIC.
Like being told we're stupid for accepting evolution?
The only believers--religious believers, that is--who should have any problem understanding their beliefs aren't threatened by science are those with the most fragile, rigid and shallow form of belief.
If your religion exhorts you to hate, or to maintain willful, needless ignorance, there are better religions you could look into.
I've had plenty of experiences growing up with dogs and cats. Guess what, they pretty much all act the same! If I want a friendly energetic dog, I go get a lab because guess what, they pretty much all act the same. A room of 10 human beings vs a room of 10 dogs of the same breed is not even remotely equivalent when gauging distinct personality traits.
This is merely further proof of evolution, though you likely don't realize it.
I've had plenty of experiences growing up with dogs and cats. Guess what, they pretty much all act the same! If I want a friendly energetic dog, I go get a lab because guess what, they pretty much all act the same. A room of 10 human beings vs a room of 10 dogs of the same breed is not even remotely equivalent when gauging distinct personality traits.
Once again
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Originally Posted by DewDropInn
I'm guessing you've never known the love of a faithful dog.
Jeff is playing his best card here: Reasoning. Well, it's something that we have that no other animal has, yep, I accept that. But "It must be a god that dunnit" is not the right answer. So, Jeff, you are flogging a dead horse. Especially since -as my fellow posters say - you can see signs of it in a very basic (and as YOU say) - instinctive -form. Consciousness, social behaviours, problem solving, instinctive survival - reaction and a lot of what makes up our thought can be traced back to animal consciousness and that back to mere evolved instinctive reaction. Our reasoning power makes more sense as something that evolved in order to enable a primate that really hadn't much else to use to survive.
Jeff, this isn't going to help you prove anything. Particularly that there was a Flood, and Ark, and that Ken Hamm's replica is anything but a curiosity or that school classes should be dragged along there to be indoctrinated with Creationist bunkum.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 07-08-2016 at 05:52 AM..
I have no problem with a person believing in a god but when they use that belief to make them sound like an expert in a subject that they know little about is when they make my skin crawl. I am not sure how much instinct is involved in solving mutistep problems like the one that ravens are able to complete sucessfully. But that is part of the wonder of the secular world, a world open 5o religious people as well, at least for those willing to look at some things without it having to be forced into their religious view. Many great religious people have and are able to do so.
Some authors have speculated at the role that dogs played in our survival and four to flourish as a species. I 5hink this makes our story richer not poorer. People like Hamm lessen not enhances the story of humans.
The Bible makes some people experts on everything. No education, or reasoning needed.
No children? They are experts on children.
No wife? They are an expert on the sex they are not having, and relationships that they do not have.
( moment of silence please)
No empathy and love? They are experts on the entire human race.
No connection, or love for animals? They are experts in the behavior of every species.
They are true experts on ignorance. They believe ignorance is inspired. One book to rule them all.
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Well, we come from a seed! 
moment of silence please)
