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Their church pays her and her husband a combined salary of $1,350,000 annually....Surely they can afford to pay the taxes on their multiple properties...Who the hell needs five homes anyway?
They have quite a scam going there.......Greed personified!
This kind of thing manifests in different ways in different congregations. I was church shopping once and ran across a recently established church of maybe a couple hundred members where the young pastor already had a snazzy new Corvette and a blinged-out wife. I ran, and did not walk, from that church. I got the impression that the people saw the pastor as hip, successful, visionary, bold, edgy ... or something like that. In other words they were aspiring on some level to his implied promise of godliness married with plenty. Even though this wasn't overtly a "prosperity gospel"-teaching church, the only way I can think of for a pastor to get away with living high on the hog (and, of necessity, demanding generous contributions from the working stiffs in his congregation) is to teach that you, too, can be blessed like that.
In short, greedy pastors attract greedy parishioners. And when they are emboldened by getting away with more and more largesse, and get more and more hero-worship from their followers, they start to believe some of their own BS and think they are impervious to the attentions of the IRS.
In fairness, that conceit is not unique to Christians. Every criminal enterprise eventually overreaches and runs into the long arm of the law.
Sadly the Corvette-coveting pastor was not unique in my experience. Another church I attended for a bit was trying to diversify into a senior facility in which they were selling "shares" to members, very similar to the scandal that brought Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker down. I bailed on that one, too. Later, after I left the faith, I knew some people who attended a church that had some kind of Ponzi investment scheme going that bankrupted dozens of families, disgraced the pastor, and left a half-finished church building (one of those ugly, utilitarian "pole barns" that evangelicals tend to favor) as a blight on a major street corner I was obliged to pass daily. They couldn't even afford to tear it down.
There were of course a dozen or so other churches I was part of that were not into that kind of thing. I'm in no way suggesting that all, or even most, such churches are of that ilk. But it's ALL too common.
I was living in South Florida long before and just up to the midst of the recession. Man, the amount of schemes, cooked up by church folks during those years of prosperity due to the housing boom was startling. I lost my FIRST house because I got caught up in one scam. Up the road from me, a 60 something year old pastor was led out in handcuffs after it was found out he was swindling people out of their homes and profiting. His wife fled to Jamaica.
While many of us did not know it at the time, the bust had already started so foreclosures were looming. The trick, if I recall, was to sign over your rights to somebody else "in the church(es)," have them refinance and at some point, sign the house back over to you. This scam was prevalent in many of the black churches down there, but more pronounced in churches dominated by Jamaican folks. Some of these pastors were living big.
I agree that it's shameful misuse of funds, but why is no one complaining about the CEO's of banks and large corporations, who also have special tax status thanks to loopholes they lobbied for, for taking home millions in "bonuses" as they fleece a lot more people (and eliminate jobs to boot) than one pastor does? There is substantial evidence that the banks even set up the foreclosure bust precisely because they knew they would get a bailout (AND the houses). Peace
Why do you care what pastors do? Separation of church and state right? Oh wait, you want it to be a one way street. Get all up in the business of churches while demanding that every single thread of religiosity be scrubbed from the public view and office. Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.
If churches pay taxes then churches can endorse politicians and lobby lawmakers.
Oh come on! You really think churches stay out of politics? Really? Get a clue!
'Poverty'. Right. She gives 80% of her donations to charity, and somehow still has money for five homes, and you consider that 'poverty'?
What possible reason could she have for owning five homes? Has any of her money trickled down to her congregation? 'Cause if she's living high on the hog with five homes and her flock is struggling along with one house basic necessities like the rest of us, she's sure presenting a p**s-poor example of 'stewardship'.
Bill Gates -- who has a single (just one) home (though I'll freely admit, it's a really expensive house) -- earned the money he's spent to furnish it through decades of hard work (no religion-related tax-breaks for him), and now donates the majority of his income to charitable causes. As of 2007, he and his wife have donated $28 billion to charity. He and his wife plan to eventually direct 95% of their personal fortune to charitable causes.
The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation owns around $34 billion in assets and their benefactors are allowed to see exactly where their donations go. Hint: none of it goes to buying five houses for Bill and Melinda.
Meanwhile, a lone pastor donates 80% of her wealth to charity and can still afford five parsonages.
You tell me which of them is more worthy of my respect.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,916,433 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1
I agree that it's shameful misuse of funds, but why is no one complaining about the CEO's of banks and large corporations, who also have special tax status thanks to loopholes they lobbied for, for taking home millions in "bonuses" as they fleece a lot more people (and eliminate jobs to boot) than one pastor does? There is substantial evidence that the banks even set up the foreclosure bust precisely because they knew they would get a bailout (AND the houses). Peace
When the IRS catch them if they have transgressed tax law, they pay or go to jail. If they are fraudulent, they go to jail. Ask Bernie Ebbers.
On the other hand, if a public company, their books are not only open, they must be audited by an independent accountant.
Which church opens their books in that manner? Which one?
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,916,433 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredNotBob
'Poverty'. Right. She gives 80% of her donations to charity, and somehow still has money for five homes, and you consider that 'poverty'?
What possible reason could she have for owning five homes? Has any of her money trickled down to her congregation? 'Cause if she's living high on the hog with five homes and her flock is struggling along with one house basic necessities like the rest of us, she's sure presenting a p**s-poor example of 'stewardship'.
Bill Gates -- who has a single (just one) home (though I'll freely admit, it's a really expensive house) -- earned the money he's spent to furnish it through decades of hard work (no religion-related tax-breaks for him), and now donates the majority of his income to charitable causes. As of 2007, he and his wife have donated $28 billion to charity. He and his wife plan to eventually direct 95% of their personal fortune to charitable causes.
The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation owns around $34 billion in assets and their benefactors are allowed to see exactly where their donations go. Hint: none of it goes to buying five houses for Bill and Melinda.
Meanwhile, a lone pastor donates 80% of her wealth to charity and can still afford five parsonages.
You tell me which of them is more worthy of my respect.
But, but, Bill Gates is not a christian! He CAN'T be good or do good.
Is it reasonable for a pastor to own five parsonages? For what purpose does she need that many homes? Does she not like the parquet floor in the first four?
No it is not reasonable for a pastor to own five houses, or for the church to own multiple houses for the minister.
Also I read the article at no point does it say that she owns five parsonages, in fact she wouldn't even own one. She owns five houses. A parsonage is a house owned by the church for the use of the minister. When the church does not own it, it is not a parsonage.
The history of the parsonage being tax free is it is an extension of the church. Frequently people come and meet with the minister at the parsonage. In addition ministers used to be transferred quite frequently, and it is a huge financial burden to buy/sell or rent all the time. While we are transferred less so now, it is difficult and expensive to move and we do tend to move more frequently than other people.
Finally the IRS makes us keep track of our housing expenses. We are given an allowance; if we spend less than the allowance, whatever is left over is taxed.
In addition we are treated as self-employed for tax purposes, so we have to pay not only the employee portion of social security etc., but also the employer portion - so yeah, we pay twice.
I agree that it's shameful misuse of funds, but why is no one complaining about the CEO's of banks and large corporations, who also have special tax status thanks to loopholes they lobbied for, for taking home millions in "bonuses" as they fleece a lot more people (and eliminate jobs to boot) than one pastor does? There is substantial evidence that the banks even set up the foreclosure bust precisely because they knew they would get a bailout (AND the houses). Peace
Why are you deflecting away from the topic of discussion?
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