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That just means he's one of them super secret muslims.
Exactly. The ones who are so secret, they go to Christian churches, use Christian phrases, don't call God by His Muslim name, raise their children Christian, drink, smoke and eat pork.
Those MANY moments President Obama, "the Muslim president," forgot he was Muslim:
Here drinking alcohol:
Here eating PORK chops:
We keep getting told repeatedly that behavior and beliefs have little to do with our religion. That's why we see you guys say that the kkk is Christian and every nut job that ever went to a VBS for a day as a kid is a Christian--regardless of what they actually DO or BELIEVE.
It wouldn't be a bad thing at all, except that Obama has repeatedly stated that he is a Christian. I keep forgetting, though, people don't get to decide what to call themselves; you and some others get to decide what they really are.
I'm not calling him a Christian or a Muslim. Did you see otherwise?
I'm just saying that by his actions, he does not seem to show a love for Christ, and he is quite fond of Islam.
Perhaps he is. I wouldn't know it based on anything he's done. The only church I've seen him be a part of is a racist church in Chicago.
On the other hand, he routinely extols the virtues of Islam.
As I asked though...would it be a bad thing if he was a Muslim? Do you consider that a horrible thing?
For the umpteenth time, it isn't about whether we think being a Muslim is "horrible," it's the fact that Sabato, about whom this thread was started, obviously DOES think it's "horrible" and specifically put Obama into those terms, that as someone who "isn't Christian" according to Sabato, Obama is contributing negatively to the country. Period. (As well as lying, obviously, since Obama says he is Christian but Sabato says he DOES NOT BELIEVE that.)
But you know this. You're just used to manipulation and verbal runaround in the name of Jesus, rather than seeking truth. (shrug) You can play with words all day and avoid truth from now until forever; is this part of knowing people by their fruit? If a person manipulates words in order to deliberately avoid truth, does that make him a non-Christian? I hope not, for your congregation's sake. If so they're all going to be pretty surprised. "OMG. The pastor isn't actually Christian."
I'll bet you're lying and are a Muslim, Viz. No real Christian would deliberately sidestep truth and do a verbal dance-around in order to mislead people and shut them up and further, to continue and support vicious rumors. Shall we ask Sabato about this?
Some people on this thread ought to turn that pointed finger around when claiming someone "acts unChristian" by their very own definitions. I mean...it boggles the mind.
Quote:
I'm just saying that by his actions, he does not seem to show a love for Christ, and he is quite fond of Islam.
I thought Jesus instructed his followers to love everyone. It seems to really bother you that someone could love a person who wasn't Christian, specifically. Did Jesus say "love your neighbor, unless he's a Muslim, in which case he is obviously a Muslim himself"? Jesus routinely hung out with whores and liars. Was Jesus therefore a ***** and a liar? Or at least, a *****-lover and a liar-lover?
Perhaps he is. I wouldn't know it based on anything he's done. The only church I've seen him be a part of is a racist church in Chicago.
On the other hand, he routinely extols the virtues of Islam.
He doesn't demonize Islam, and is respectful of it in principle, and considers the radicalized elements to not be true to the core religion. This is a sane, reasonable and common-sense approach to Islam that avoids fear-mongering and profiling, and running about attempting to demonize an entire religion rather than getting at root causes of terrorism. It also avoids alienating Muslim-Americans, who are overall wealthier, more successful, better educated than the average citizen and therefore correspondingly difficult to radicalize.
I know that's a difficult concept to understand when you believe everything is driven by imagined spiritual warfare and that everyone who doesn't believe your dogma is under demonic influence. But that is exactly why we unbelievers consider religion to be dangerous: it divorces actions from real-world considerations and introduces theological ones.
For the umpteenth time, it isn't about whether we think being a Muslim is "horrible," it's the fact that Sabato, about whom this thread was started, obviously DOES think it's "horrible" and specifically put Obama into those terms, that as someone who "isn't Christian" according to Sabato, Obama is contributing negatively to the country. Period. (As well as lying, obviously, since Obama says he is Christian but Sabato says he DOES NOT BELIEVE that.)
So you are feigning offense at the idea of someone else being offended at a president patronizing Christianity while being a muslim and working for the good of Islam, which is not compatible with Christianity? Is that it?
So you are feigning offense at the idea of someone else being offended at a president patronizing Christianity while being a muslim and working for the good of Islam, which is not compatible with Christianity? Is that it?
That bothers you?
It bothers me a bit that someone telling others they aren't Christian would manipulate in just ^this^ way, right down to deliberately ignoring the fact that I already answered what "bothers" me about all this and that you definitely read that, and already know.
Once again: by their fruits, we certainly do know them...in this case, this pastor is showing his stripes.
He doesn't demonize Islam, and is respectful of it in principle, and considers the radicalized elements to not be true to the core religion. This is a sane, reasonable and common-sense approach to Islam that avoids fear-mongering and profiling, and running about attempting to demonize an entire religion rather than getting at root causes of terrorism. It also avoids alienating Muslim-Americans, who are overall wealthier, more successful, better educated than the average citizen and therefore correspondingly difficult to radicalize.
I know that's a difficult concept to understand when you believe everything is driven by imagined spiritual warfare and that everyone who doesn't believe your dogma is under demonic influence. But that is exactly why we unbelievers consider religion to be dangerous: it divorces actions from real-world considerations and introduces theological ones.
Or maybe it's just what I said -- that he doesn't ACT like a Christian. He is rarely seen worshiping in a Christian church, and he talks about the goodness of Islam more than Christ.
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If so they're all going to be pretty surprised. "OMG. The pastor isn't actually Christian."