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Basically, the way I felt was that I was going to allow the conversation to continue in a non-threatening amicable way and caught up in the situation of the moment, that was how I responded.
I appreciate the way you dealt with this situation.. I can see that you are a kind person.
Just some questions that immediately came to me.. don't take them personally please..
If I remember right, you've said that even tho you don't call yourself a Christian, yet you subscribe to some of the teachings of "Jesus", or see some value in them for today's society.
My question is.. have you ever thought that maybe the reason you said "I'm not sure" was because you saw "Jesus" in the old man?
Or that by being kind to the old man you were being kind to "Jesus", as you see Him?
I appreciate the way you dealt with this situation.. I can see that you are a kind person.
Just some questions that immediately came to me.. don't take them personally please..
If I remember right, you've said that even tho you don't call yourself a Christian, yet you subscribe to some of the teachings of "Jesus", or see some value in them for today's society.
My question is.. have you ever thought that maybe the reason you said "I'm not sure" was because you saw "Jesus" in the old man?
Or that by being kind to the old man you were being kind to "Jesus", as you see Him?
Thanks for sharing your story.
Thank you.
As far as your question is concerned... No, I don't think I saw Jesus in the old man. What I saw was an old man who just wanted to be friendly with someone. Perhaps he wanted to talk to someone of a younger generation? Perhaps he thought I reminded him of someone long ago? It wasn't until after I said "I'm not sure" that the conversation ensued where I realized what it's like to look through the eyes of someone approaching ninety. That's what made him special. It wasn't the fact that he asked me about Jesus. In fact, at first, I had the same initial reaction that a lot of people have spoken about such as "How dare he ask me?" or "Why did he have to put it like that?" It wasn't until I saw the look in his eyes and his body language that he just wanted to talk and it appeared the only thing he knew to bring into context was Jesus. As I said... the conversation ended up not even revolving around anything to do with religion. His next question to me was "Are you in the military?" Of course, my haircut at the time probably gave that away and that's how the conversation ensued on how he was at Normandy during D-Day. After that, it was all downhill with no mention of religion at all. I simply saw it as a guy who wanted to talk and I let him borrow my ear for a little while. Nothing more, nothing less.
So anyway. What did you two talk about after his question and your answer?
I'm not sure how I would answer this question. I tend to get uncomfortable when complete strangers ask me things like that. In the case you're describing, GCS, with a much older person, I'm 100% sure I'd be polite no matter what my response was. I just feel that very old people, at least if they're not mean old people, deserve respect and deserve gentleness, because no matter what, you don't get to be a certain age without a good few knocks and hard times.
This isn't religious, but when I was pregnant with my middle son, I was standing in the parenting aisle at Barnes & Noble. A man in perhaps his 50s (I was 35 at the time...so, not significantly older, at least not as I judge things) came up to me and nodded. I nodded back. He then said, "So. Are you planning on breastfeeding?"
I was so taken aback that I answered immediately with honesty: "No." I didn't say it in an unpleasant voice or anything. I answered it the way a student would answer a teacher when a question was shot off at the student.
I thought (hoped) that would be the end of the conversation. I smiled vaguely so as not to be rude (I was worried about being rude? In retrospect, that's kind of funny) and just sort of casually moved down a couple yards toward the end of the aisle.
He followed me. "Why not?" he demanded.
Now I was angry...and a little weirded out. It just all felt...weird. I had my own reasons. I answered him, "Because that's just my decision."
He said, "If you'd just tell me why you won't breastfeed, I could help you with whatever your issues are."
At that point I literally turned and walked away. But as I did, he was still talking, saying, "Actually, I wrote a book about it...it's over here..." It was a book author. Trying to sell me his book!
My point here is that some things are very personal. I believe one's relationship with God or with gods, with Jesus or with Mohommad or whomever, is personal. (Yes, as personal as one's breastfeeding decision.) It is nobody else's business. I don't care whose book tells whom to go out and preach. Nobody's privacy should be invaded in a personal way. Ever. (In a forum like this one, of course, people are only offering what they wish to offer...and are not being approached cold off the street. Here, it's different...we can choose to answer what we want, when we want, and to refrain when we want. I don't count sitting in a waiting room with other people watching, and being asked directly what one's personal religious beliefs are, in that category.) Now, this breastfeeding guru guy felt perfectly justified in trailing me and trying to "convert" me. I could tell he thought he was doing it for my own good. That if only I knew what a great thing it all was, I'd change. That it was pretty much his duty to change me. Exactly like religious prostyletizers.
I immediately mistrust people who ask me a question that they already probably know the answer to, knowing they are asking expressly to "win" a "convert" to whatever. I think it's wrong. Period. I have always thought that was wrong.
So, just a note to those who wish to spread their word to non-believers: We're not snapping at you because we're evil. We're snapping at you because you getting up on us about "the good word" and "why don't you believe?" and "let me ask you some more questions" is every bit as invasive as if someone were to walk up to you and demand to know if you were breastfeeding, and then demanding to know why or why not. It truly is. It's personal and it's a direct confrontation...even with the little smile attached. I'm very sorry. But it is.
So if this elderly gentleman dropped the subject, GCS, then he was as polite as you were. If not, no matter how kind he looked, he was trying to win you over and was being pushy. I'm hoping it was the former.
But I'm still very curious as to how the conversation went from there. *Did* you actually have a conversation after that point?
This is the christian moral ? Lie to someone to make them feel better ?
Nope, it's a little thing called compassion- completely unrelated to any religion and something that most people in our day and age could do with more of.
Telling someone, something that isnt true, is a lie. There is no reason to lie about believing in jesus to offer compassion and comfort, and if that is the only way the person can be comforted they need therepy.
But I'm still very curious as to how the conversation went from there. *Did* you actually have a conversation after that point?
Yeah I think I mentioned what we talked about in some previous posts on this particular thread. Basically it had nothing to do with religion. He told me about arriving in Normandy on D-Day (as I had mentioned I was currently in the military), oil prices, how an old man makes a living on dwindling social security, and what the heck was taking so long to get our oil changed. That was it.
Hey GCS, I am more shocked to hear how young you are than anything else. And by how you are on here, it does not surprise me at all, which road you took. Of course personally I would have told him, yes I do believe. But if I were in your shoes, I would have liked to think that I would have done the same thing.
While I do get a lot of other Athiests points, I think you did make the right decision. For the record, if someone would ask that, then they need to be ready for any answer that comes out. While it isn't like it down here, where I come from there are two things you are never supposed to bring up, religion and politics. It can be very good or very bad, typically not a lot of grey area.
Yes telling someone a lie is always the best way to do, preachers do it every sunday. Got to love the christian morality
Ignorance is not lying, and that was a huge brush you have there....
godspeed,
freedom
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That was it.
