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I remember when I was a kid and still believed in God. I questioned the reality of God, but I guess you could say I believed. I remember hearing about heaven and hell and all of that good stuff. I remember occassionally hearing from other people what their version of heaven and hell were. It's interesting, because when I heard something that appealed to me, I remember thinking "Wow, I've never heard that perspective in terms of how God is, and I think I'm inclined to believe it." Other times I'd hear about how brutal and maniacal God was and I remember thinking "I like the other God better and I think that's the one I believe in."
What was the unchanged constant (well not anymore) in all of this? I believed there was a God when I was a kid. I was subjected to numerous different stories, methods, and proposals as to what he does with us when we die. I always ended up picking the belief most desirable for me. The thing is that people's belief in God has never been questioned but the methods and operations of God are consistently questioned. Look at the Christianity forum some time and tell me that people aren't wondering about what God does when you die! People believe what they want to believe in regards to the personality behind their God. Whether he's a sadistic power freak, or a chilled out dude in the clouds, people perceive their god how it best suits them.
Again, the belief in God is there, it's the personification of him that seems to be so screwy and that leads me to believe that the personification is that of what people want it to be and not a direct reflection of what isn't even there to begin with!
So, if you don't mind me asking, what was the straw that broke the camel's back. Because you said that you still believed in God, but had to choose the personification of him. If it is too personal you can just tell me to mind my own business.
Very interesting post though. Makes a lot of sense. In my opinion or view, I see God as really a father. I don't fear him as like you say "a sadistic power freak" or that some christians are actually fearful of him. Just more of like respecting a fathers rules.
"People felt the need to feel comfort/justified so they invented a God to believe in."..."People believe what they want to believe."
Whenever I see statements like this, I'm always a little amazed that people believe these statements, which to me seem illogical (but I guess people believe what they want to believe! ).
The way I see it:
If I need to "create" something, this means that I know it hasn't existed. So then, I "create" it in my mind, and after that, I truly believe it exists??
Is it possible or logical for a rational person to invent something, with no evidence, in order to truly believe in it?
What do you think?
I haven't read any of the other posts, so I'm just replying to yours. Let me first say that it is a perfectly logical conclusion. I'll give you two reasons why.
1. If you go back and find the "What if it was proven that God didn't exist?" thread, you will notice that people said they would still have faith because they would be afraid to let go. Without something to steer them in a direction, people are afraid. Most people just need order. That's why we have governments. People would be too afraid to just have stateless societies. That's why anarchists are looked at as bad people when in fact, most of them are good people and don't fit the stereotype that is used to describe them. They are looked at as rebels, criminals, etc, when many of them aren't and people won't even study their ideology but will still criticize. People need a state to feel safe. The fear of making decisions with no outside influence is scary to a lot of people. That's why people make laws, read religious scriptures, etc. In addition, they criticize people (anarchists and atheists, which are not related by the way) who don't go for that comfort, and question their ability to be moral people.
2. I experienced this fear myself. I was a Christian up until I turned 14 and started high school (I've always been a year ahead). I was a deist at that point. That is similar to theist, but it has differences. Deists follow no religion, so I was not restricted to any sort of religious text to read. I read a lot of the works of philosophers, trying to learn what I could I guess. I started to use more logic and reasoning, which eventually led to me questioning my belief in a creator. At this point, I became afraid. Don't know how to describe it. It's like stepping out into a battlefield with no weapons or armor. The thought of leaving my belief behind was frightening. The next year, I had a Biology class, which covered evolution. I became fascinated with it. My mom had always put evolution in a negative light, so I became afraid to accept it. Of course, all the people around me were studying it too, but studying it and believing it are two different things. As time went by, I was leaving behind old thoughts and embracing science. It was long and hard. There wasn't a time during that process I didn't feel fear.
My fingers are hurting from typing now, so I'll stop now.
Originally Posted by Haaziq To me this is illogical.
Science can explain how life came to be but imo never truly explain why life came into existence.
I care how. I don't care why. I don't think we would just "come into existence" anyway. If you have any knowledge of physics at all, you'd now that the first law of thermodynamics (conservation mass-energy) states that matter and energy can not be created nor destroyed. No beginning and no end. The amount in the universe is always the same. You could blow up a building and the energy and matter that made up that building would still exist, just in a different form. We are also made up of matter and energy. When you take this law into consideration, the most logical conclusion is that the universe and it's contents (including us) have always existed in some form.
"People felt the need to feel comfort/justified so they invented a God to believe in."..."People believe what they want to believe."
Whenever I see statements like this, I'm always a little amazed that people believe these statements, which to me seem illogical (but I guess people believe what they want to believe! ).
The way I see it:
If I need to "create" something, this means that I know it hasn't existed. So then, I "create" it in my mind, and after that, I truly believe it exists??
Is it possible or logical for a rational person to invent something, with no evidence, in order to truly believe in it?
What do you think?
I agree that it seems illogical to believe that the idea of god was created by man.
I've always wanted to ask those of you that do believe this, about how long ago would this have happened? I think the evolutionist theory is that man showed up on earth about 100,000 years ago, is that right? So let's say the idea of god was invented sometime within the first few thousand years after man evolved, let's give it as much as 10,000 years. That would mean that this idea of god, with no real evidence of his existence (according to the atheist) has been around for at least 90,000 years.
Doesn't it seem logical that sometime in that span of years that mankind would have realized that there is indeed no god, that they had been duped into believing in a god and that people would have left the church in droves and it would have collapsed thousands of years ago?
After all, look how much man has "evolved" in that period of time? We are so much more advanced as a species than we were thousands of years, or tens of thousands of years ago (according to the evolutionary theory). Surely mankind would have dropped the idea of god eons ago if he truly didn't exist.
I think my theory holds as much logic as the idea that god was invented by man.
I agree that it seems illogical to believe that the idea of god was created by man.
I've always wanted to ask those of you that do believe this, about how long ago would this have happened? I think the evolutionist theory is that man showed up on earth about 100,000 years ago, is that right? So let's say the idea of god was invented sometime within the first few thousand years after man evolved, let's give it as much as 10,000 years. That would mean that this idea of god, with no real evidence of his existence (according to the atheist) has been around for at least 90,000 years.
Doesn't it seem logical that sometime in that span of years that mankind would have realized that there is indeed no god, that they had been duped into believing in a god and that people would have left the church in droves and it would have collapsed thousands of years ago?
After all, look how much man has "evolved" in that period of time? We are so much more advanced as a species than we were thousands of years, or tens of thousands of years ago (according to the evolutionary theory). Surely mankind would have dropped the idea of god eons ago if he truly didn't exist.
I think my theory holds as much logic as the idea that god was invented by man.
Read my post that is a few posts above yours. It is perfectly logical to come to the conclusion that God was created by humans out of fear.
Doesn't it seem logical that sometime in that span of years that mankind would have realized that there is indeed no god, that they had been duped into believing in a god and that people would have left the church in droves and it would have collapsed thousands of years ago?
After all, look how much man has "evolved" in that period of time? We are so much more advanced as a species than we were thousands of years, or tens of thousands of years ago (according to the evolutionary theory). Surely mankind would have dropped the idea of god eons ago if he truly didn't exist.
Hope and fear are powerful things which have been around for a very long time. For example, let's consider panic.
Panic is in general a bad thing. It makes people prone to making poor decisions in dangerous situations. So why don't people simply not panic?
Well, panic is an instinct which has become somewhat outdated in the modern world. It has a basis in back to simpler times when most dangerous situations could be resolved either by running away (in which the panic motivates quickness) or by fighting back (Nothing fights harder than a cornered animal in fear of its life.)
It isn't much good in a burning building though.
Getting somewhat back to the point. These things still exist because they are powered by emotions, not reasoning ability. Fear of pain and fear of death are the biggest ones.
Besides, advanced thinking methods like deductive reasoning and logical analysis are fairly new by comparison to humans. These things take time.
Quote:
I think my theory holds as much logic as the idea that god was invented by man.
I am curious Deb. Have you ever done any actual reading into the concept of logical reasoning?
For example, have you read about concepts like refutation by logical analogy?
Check out this webpage if you want to read more on the idea that God was invented by man.
"Atheists commonly claim that humans invented God to satisfy some of his fear of death, therefore, wishing God into existence. According to the theory, man realized his limitations and fears and projected an image of God to calm these fears. In short, God is what man wishes to be - a kind of super-man. This model matches the gods of the pagan religions quite well, and possibly explains the origins of these religions. For example, in nearly all pagan religions, the gods look like the people - Ethiopian gods were dark-skinned whereas Greek gods tended to be white. So, aren't all gods just inventions of the people who claim them?"
Hope and fear are powerful things which have been around for a very long time. For example, let's consider panic.
Panic is in general a bad thing. It makes people prone to making poor decisions in dangerous situations. So why don't people simply not panic?
Well, panic is an instinct which has become somewhat outdated in the modern world. It has a basis in back to simpler times when most dangerous situations could be resolved either by running away (in which the panic motivates quickness) or by fighting back (Nothing fights harder than a cornered animal in fear of its life.)
It isn't much good in a burning building though.
Getting somewhat back to the point. These things still exist because they are powered by emotions, not reasoning ability. Fear of pain and fear of death are the biggest ones.
Besides, advanced thinking methods like deductive reasoning and logical analysis are fairly new by comparison to humans. These things take time.
I am curious Deb. Have you ever done any actual reading into the concept of logical reasoning?
For example, have you read about concepts like refutation by logical analogy?
No I have not....so let me guess, that makes my arguments less valid than yours correct?
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).
To me this is illogical. 
