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the why is easy. But you didn't even answer the question "can you show me anything we do that the universe isn't ultimately doing". its a simple question.
how you feel about it is a minor point. Personal opinions are a dime dozen to me.
Do you want to re-read that post we are talking about it, I thought you called your question a minor point. And I answered that I had no idea what your questions was even asking. Are you asking if the Universe is breathing and pooping like we do? Or are you simply trying to find some round-about way of saying that we are in the Universe and a part of it?
Do you want to re-read that post we are talking about it, I thought you called your question a minor point. And I answered that I had no idea what your questions was even asking. Are you asking if the Universe is breathing and pooping like we do? Or are you simply trying to find some round-about way of saying that we are in the Universe and a part of it?
oh, sorry, my bad. I have trouble with a forum setting. "minor point" wasn't literal. It was more like "Thats one bad car", and in this format that can come off wrong.
no, you are taking it way to far. "does it poop"? we don't know. they call it a closed system so "poop", or waste leaving it, as a whole, isn't known. "breathing" is part of a larger transportation mechanism to get O2 around the body. Does the universe, as a whole, "breath", the better question would be does it pull in resources from outside of it so that it doesn't reach static equilibrium. Again, they think its a close system, but we don't know for sure.
but, if you look at what "pooping" and "breathing" is, does it poop? you do it, the universe must, in part, be doing it when you are doing it. Unless of course you can tell me how it is not.
My question is, "is there anything that you do that the universe isn't ultimately doing". my question to you is pointing out, that what ever you think we are, the universe, in part, must be it too.
That conclusion has less emotion associated with with. Because I don't care how I feel about it, its empirical.
That's a starting axiom. axioms are a few notions that start all lines of logic to avoid logical fallacies. Removing my opinion is an important part in describing how the universe works.
1. Imagine (for a minute or two) that you are a Christian,
Imagine that you're in a Debate Online (City-Data.com, Religion And Spirituality Forum)
This Debate is on "The Existence Of God".
What argument(s) (as far as Evidence For The Existence Of God is concerned), would you present to the "Opposition" in your attempt(s) to "convince" them that there are Sound reasons to believe in God's existence?
Part 2 (This Is for the Christians to address):
2. Imagine for a moment or two that you're an Atheist
Imagine that you're Online (City-Data.com probably). You're in the same Debate as presented in
Part 1 above.
What argument(s) would you present to the "Opposition", in your attempt(s) to "convince" them that there are Good reasons to not believe or to suspend belief (in God's existence)....until convincing evidence shows up?
Sincere arguments (and opinions) from both sides will be appreciated.
oh, sorry, my bad. I have trouble with a forum setting. "minor point" wasn't literal. It was more like "Thats one bad car", and in this format that can come off wrong.
no, you are taking it way to far. "does it poop"? we don't know. they call it a closed system so "poop", or waste leaving it, as a whole, isn't known. "breathing" is part of a larger transportation mechanism to get O2 around the body. Does the universe, as a whole, "breath", the better question would be does it pull in resources from outside of it so that it doesn't reach static equilibrium. Again, they think its a close system, but we don't know for sure.
but, if you look at what "pooping" and "breathing" is, does it poop? you do it, the universe must, in part, be doing it when you are doing it. Unless of course you can tell me how it is not.
My question is, "is there anything that you do that the universe isn't ultimately doing". my question to you is pointing out, that what ever you think we are, the universe, in part, must be it too.
That conclusion has less emotion associated with with. Because I don't care how I feel about it, its empirical.
That's a starting axiom. axioms are a few notions that start all lines of logic to avoid logical fallacies. Removing my opinion is an important part in describing how the universe works.
O Luminous one, do you, like me, read a post like this and sorta get that a point was not so much made but missed, and do you get the impression of a brain that hasn't been installed quite right?
I'd suggest that you and I discuss the point but it seems to me off topic, anyway
O Luminous one, do you, like me, read a post like this and sorta get that a point was not so much made but missed, and do you get the impression of a brain that hasn't been installed quite right?
I'd suggest that you and I discuss the point but it seems to me off topic, anyway
lmao, you have to squeeze how the universe works again through atheism for him? make sure he tows the line do ya?
add it to the religious over influence list.
pack mentality and tow the line
call the others "crazy" if their view doesn't match your view, oh wait, that one is on the list already.
I told you my brain glitches, you never fessed up about your past and what happened to you by a religious person. Bet I can guess it tho.
lmao, you have to squeeze how the universe works again through atheism for him? make sure he tows the line do ya?
add it to the religious over influence list.
pack mentality and tow the line
call the others "crazy" if their view doesn't match your view, oh wait, that one is on the list already.
I told you my brain glitches, you never fessed up about your past and what happened to you by a religious person. Bet I can guess it tho.
More evidence that you know and understand nothing about atheism and its' rationale, and your loathing for a certain kind of atheist (and I think the final bit of the puzzle is fitted in) prevents you from ever representing it fairly, which is why your statements about atheism must be rejected as bullcrap as surely as those of any other kind of theist.
oh, sorry, my bad. I have trouble with a forum setting. "minor point" wasn't literal. It was more like "Thats one bad car", and in this format that can come off wrong.
no, you are taking it way to far. "does it poop"? we don't know. they call it a closed system so "poop", or waste leaving it, as a whole, isn't known. "breathing" is part of a larger transportation mechanism to get O2 around the body. Does the universe, as a whole, "breath", the better question would be does it pull in resources from outside of it so that it doesn't reach static equilibrium. Again, they think its a close system, but we don't know for sure.
but, if you look at what "pooping" and "breathing" is, does it poop? you do it, the universe must, in part, be doing it when you are doing it. Unless of course you can tell me how it is not.
My question is, "is there anything that you do that the universe isn't ultimately doing". my question to you is pointing out, that what ever you think we are, the universe, in part, must be it too.
That conclusion has less emotion associated with with. Because I don't care how I feel about it, its empirical.
That's a starting axiom. axioms are a few notions that start all lines of logic to avoid logical fallacies. Removing my opinion is an important part in describing how the universe works.
Yep, I agree that we are in the Universe and are a part of it.
Once you know that God IS love, you can't help but know that all the other nonsense in the primitive and superstitious beliefs of our ignorant ancestors is just stupid and irrational.
Clearly, you are focused on all the stupid irrationality in the ancient beliefs of our ignorant ancestors and refuse even to consider the true nature of God revealed by Christ. Sad, very sad!
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth
What, are you working for Trump now? His third-grade-level sign offs would never work on me. You can consider and imagine any believed true natures revealed by any proposed kings that you want to. I find that to be the sad part. I never made up a "Christ" spirit that was better and outside the descriptions that the New Testament gives, sorry. I see no need to either, since I don't believe in the idea of kingdoms anyway.
That is your prerogative, Luminous. The Christian aspects of my views are beliefs grounded in personal experiences and their agreement with recorded descriptions in the spiritual fossil record about God. My belief in God, however, is a function of science and logic and plausible inferences from them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth
You do know that Christ means "anointed" [as king], right?
There can be as many spiritual people running around calling themselves "real" Christians criticizing religious fundamentalism as there want to be. I still would not subscribe to "Intelligent Design," "Deism," "Panentheism," "uberliberal Christianity," etc.
Again, your prerogative, but in this instance, you are writing off God because of a preference for ignorance. You do NOT know what our reality IS (or why it IS) but you are certain it is NOT God. That is your preference, but it has no substantiation whatever because, in the final analysis, you do NOT know WHAT it is so you can NOT know what it is NOT.
Yep, I agree that we are in the Universe and are a part of it.
that's it. we agree.
we are part of whatever the universe is. We can only have traits that the universe has. We can only be doing what the universe does. We are part of the universe. It can't be any different.
More evidence that you know and understand nothing about atheism and its' rationale, and your loathing for a certain kind of atheist (and I think the final bit of the puzzle is fitted in) prevents you from ever representing it fairly, which is why your statements about atheism must be rejected as bullcrap as surely as those of any other kind of theist.
reject what I say because you feel it is bullcap. I mean that proves me right. You reject/accept all notions based on your atheism and not how I am describing you. You are seeing the world through atheism, I am not.
I understand exact what atheism is. I don't believe in theist type gods. I understand that your sect of atheism is different then my sect of atheism. You have an anti-religious agenda that I do not have.
I represent it "atheism" very fairly. I listen to people. I do not treat people fairly that do not act fairly. There is no fair reason to reject anything that comes up just because you have an ax to grind. Thats not fair.
I only discuss "how the universe works". I do not have to make observations fit my atheism. you willfully dismiss observations that don't support your atheism.
For example:
make the measurement. Look up the definition of measurement.
Does the biosphere compare better with things we classify as "life", "virus", or "non-life"
My lack of belief does not effect the compassion in any way. My atheism does not effect the answer for me anymore than holding a meter stick up against a table leg and saying 92.33 cm.
Can you say the same thing?
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Once you know that God IS love, you can't help but know that all the other nonsense in the primitive and superstitious beliefs of our ignorant ancestors is just stupid and irrational.
