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It appears Jobster is unaware that we are a nation of laws with a judicial system that is not tied to any theocracy.
I'm sure he would rather have it the other way...perhaps he should move to Saudi Arabia and see what a government ruled by religious doctrine is like. Our founding father's were much brighter than that...they knew how horrific a government operating by religious doctrines would be like. Be thankful for that!
It's pretty obvious that you have very little idea how real world atheists & agnostics think. You would improve your understanding a great deal if you would stop posting for a few days and spend that time reading threads in the Atheism & Agnosticism sub-forum, really reading what they have had to say about their conversions away from religion, their views of morality, and the way they treat other people. What you post is quite different from what I see them saying about themselves.
I feel like it's a metaphor for life. It says follow the rules or make the rules up as you go along.
And which rules should we follow? Human morality or something else, and, if so, why? I won't set a trap - we have already done God's absolute morality and shown not only that it doesn't work, but would not be morality if it did, and that everyone who reads the Bible evaluates it using human morality -which is why, when God does or orders some evil thing, it it has to be excused or blamed on someone else. If whatever God id or ordered was Good, it would not need to be explained away.
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Originally Posted by Jobster
Matadora, why do I need to worship a book?
Matadora, listen. Again, you are missing the point completely. Jimmy down the block could have written those words said to be of Christ, and they would be no less righteous.
It's not about who wrote the words, the words themselves. The words are righteous. If you actually took the time to read the words, you might be able to decipher that for yourself.
Instead, you lecture me and patronize me and feel superior to me, but you ignore me. You don't listen to me.
I mean, you actually think that you're better than me and you don't even know me. And why? Because I believe something that you've determined was impossible. How you have that type of power, I don't know, but apparently you do.
I don't discount anything because I don't know anything. You apparently know everything. So what's the point of me getting into an argument with a girl that knows everything about everything?
I simply can't win. As for the paragraph, I would just like to see your thoughts summarized. That's all. Anyway.
Mensa made a good point -you don't understand us at all. Nor the soundness of humanist raionale. But we'll tell you if you want to know.
You make the argument for what is in the Book as 'Righteous'. This is an okld argument that even if it is not God's word, or God's intentions inspired into print, it would still be good. But under scrutiny, it really isn't.
We don't feel we are 'better' that you, but clearly our rationale is more sound as it is based on sounder reasoning and valid evidence. Again we should understand you in that this is not generally known, but we are willing to explain it, if you are willing to listen.
We don't claim o know everything, but the logic is - if you don't know something, then you don't believe it is true until you do know. But what we can be sure of, doesn't requite Faith that what is not known is true.
Our rationale an be summarized very simply. We are rationalists -as most people are in every field -other than religion. We are rationalist about that, too. And the rational line is that the god-religion-Bible claim has not stood up to scrutiny and does not meet its' burden of proof. Thus there is no rational reason to believe the claims made for them.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 05-19-2017 at 08:05 PM..
You remind me of the Uber driver who took me to the airport yesterday...he said that god will reward me for being a good daughter to my aging mother. I asked him which god was that? He said the Muslim god. LOL. I told him his god is nothing but another fabricated god created by humans, which is no different from the manufactured Christian god or the 1000's of gods that have been invented by humans since recorded history.
I am an atheist, but I think an even better response to you Uber driver would have been, "Thank you." since he was paying you a compliment on your good nature.
I may not believe in god, but I do believe in returning kindness with kindness, not snarky, disrespectful philosophical ripostes. I leave that to the believers in the 1000's of gods that have been invented by humans since recorded history.
I am an atheist, but I think an even better response to you Uber driver would have been, "Thank you." since he was paying you a compliment on your good nature.
I may not believe in god, but I do believe in returning kindness with kindness, not snarky, disrespectful philosophical ripostes. I leave that to the believers in the 1000's of gods that have been invented by humans since recorded history.
To each their own. I won't engage in pretending that his god is going to reward me for helping my aging mother. When anyone tosses out a god is going to do this or that for me...I find it reasonable to ask which god are they talking about? There was nothing snarky or disrespectful about it...nor did he take it that way....he even wanted to hug me when I got out at the airport.
He was giving his god the kudos not me. If he was giving me a compliment then he did not have to mention his god rewarding me for helping my aging mother. He instead could have complimented me without inserting his god. BTW don't need compliments for helping my aging mother...it's who I am at my core and I don't need to be complimented for that...it's just the way I'm wired.
To each their own. I won't engage in pretending that his god is going to reward me for helping my aging mother. When anyone tosses out a god is going to do this or that for me...I find it reasonable to ask which god are they talking about? There was nothing snarky or disrespectful about it...nor did he take it that way....he even wanted to hug me when I got out at the airport.
He was giving his god the kudos not me. If he was giving me a compliment then he did not have to mention his god rewarding me for helping my aging mother. He instead could have complimented me without inserting his god. BTW don't need compliments for helping my aging mother...it's who I am at my core and I don't need to be complimented for that...it's just the way I'm wired.
Uh, you know some dudes just do things because they want to hook up. You realize that right? Because I gotta be honest, the way you talk to people on here, you must be really, really, really good looking for that dude to get out of his car and try to hug you. The way you talk and apparently think about yourself, I can't see someone going out of their way to hug you unless they had some sort of underlying incentive.
Anyway, you missed every point I made anyway.
I mean, you even have mensa guys coming on here who paid someone for the rights to let people know that he is intelligent.
Look, it's not that difficult.
Is it possible for a genocide to happen if you were to adhere to the words of Christ.
Absolutely not. Period. Right?
Since there is no afterlife according to atheist doctrine, are there consequences for the life you've lived after you die?
Absolutely not. Period. Right?
I mean, there also isn't "karma" either right? Karma should be just as foolish as God, right?
The thing is, without a foundation, there are no fundamental guidelines. The rules are changed as the games are played. With Christianity, the rules are carved in stone, spoken by Christ.
So let's say you have someone with power who doesn't believe the same as you do, and they see you as a threat. What if they were able to justify it through some sort of statistical analysis (you know, science) that determined that a population decrease was necessary to preserve wildlife.
Would they be justified in their actions if they were to go through with a population rebalance. According to the words of Christ, absolutely not. But whom is to place judgement upon them in the absence of any consequence?
That's what you need to understand. I'm tired. I had more to say earlier, but I had things to do. You really need to think this through and stop thinking you're so special and so much better than other people.
Uh, you know some dudes just do things because they want to hook up. You realize that right? Because I gotta be honest, the way you talk to people on here, you must be really, really, really good looking for that dude to get out of his car and try to hug you. The way you talk and apparently think about yourself, I can't see someone going out of their way to hug you unless they had some sort of underlying incentive.
Yes I have been constantly told all of my life how "hot" I am, but so what?...I can't help that. Trust me it's both a blessing and a curse.
The way I talk is strait up and honest with no games involved...people like you can't handle it and find only judgement. Others like the Uber driver gets it...many folks get it. Your types will never get it. You are a typical judgmental Christian and this quote demonstrates it perfectly.
What I think about myself? You are no mind reader so stop your repeated ascribing positions to me that I don't hold. Are you also a misogynist?
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Originally Posted by Jobster
Anyway, you missed every point I made anyway.
No I have not missed any of your points. I have you pegged spot on just as many other posters have you pegged for your total BS.
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Originally Posted by Jobster
I mean, you even have mensa guys coming on here who paid someone for the rights to let people know that he is intelligent.
I suggest you read the TOS. Talking smack about a Moderator is against the TOS.
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Originally Posted by Jobster
Look, it's not that difficult.
No it's not but you are the one who seems to be struggling to keep up.
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Originally Posted by Jobster
Is it possible for a genocide to happen if you were to adhere to the words of Christ. Absolutely not. Period. Right?
I guess you missed the part where god/christ commanded genocide in the bible.
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Originally Posted by Jobster
Since there is no afterlife according to atheist doctrine, are there consequences for the life you've lived after you die?
I know of no atheist doctrine...nothing more then your unsubstantiated rubbish.
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Originally Posted by Jobster
I mean, there also isn't "karma" either right?
What goes around come around. Right?
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Originally Posted by Jobster
Karma should be just as foolish as God, right?
Depends on how you define Karma.
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Originally Posted by Jobster
The thing is, without a foundation, there are no fundamental guidelines.
Wrong...I was not brought up with a foundation but I am one of the most compassionate souls you will ever come across...compassionate to creatures who are truly suffering.
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Originally Posted by Jobster
The rules are changed as the games are played. With Christianity, the rules are carved in stone, spoken by Christ.
More of your close minded narrow views. Christ did not speak...ancient Bronze Age humans made up a story and claimed that what you call Christ spoke.
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Originally Posted by Jobster
So let's say you have someone with power who doesn't believe the same as you do, and they see you as a threat. What if they were able to justify it through some sort of statistical analysis (you know, science) that determined that a population decrease was necessary to preserve wildlife.
You are talking about mathematics. It's clear that you don't have any understanding on what science is.
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Originally Posted by Jobster
Would they be justified in their actions if they were to go through with a population rebalance. According to the words of Christ, absolutely not.
Science does not promote genocide such as the god you worship did.
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Originally Posted by Jobster
But whom is to place judgement upon them in the absence of any consequence?
Perhaps you need to ask that illusionary god you worship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobster
That's what you need to understand. I'm tired. I had more to say earlier, but I had things to do. You really need to think this through and stop thinking you're so special and so much better than other people.
There you go again ascribing positions to me that I don't hold. Why do you do this? You are a typical judgmental human who calls themselves a Christian...you are a dime a dozen.
Uh, you know some dudes just do things because they want to hook up. You realize that right? Because I gotta be honest, the way you talk to people on here, you must be really, really, really good looking for that dude to get out of his car and try to hug you. The way you talk and apparently think about yourself, I can't see someone going out of their way to hug you unless they had some sort of underlying incentive.
Anyway, you missed every point I made anyway.
I mean, you even have mensa guys coming on here who paid someone for the rights to let people know that he is intelligent.
Look, it's not that difficult.
Is it possible for a genocide to happen if you were to adhere to the words of Christ.
Absolutely not. Period. Right?
Since there is no afterlife according to atheist doctrine, are there consequences for the life you've lived after you die?
Absolutely not. Period. Right?
I mean, there also isn't "karma" either right? Karma should be just as foolish as God, right?
The thing is, without a foundation, there are no fundamental guidelines. The rules are changed as the games are played. With Christianity, the rules are carved in stone, spoken by Christ.
So let's say you have someone with power who doesn't believe the same as you do, and they see you as a threat. What if they were able to justify it through some sort of statistical analysis (you know, science) that determined that a population decrease was necessary to preserve wildlife.
Would they be justified in their actions if they were to go through with a population rebalance. According to the words of Christ, absolutely not. But whom is to place judgement upon them in the absence of any consequence?
That's what you need to understand. I'm tired. I had more to say earlier, but I had things to do. You really need to think this through and stop thinking you're so special and so much better than other people.
If genocide is evil, why did God repeatedly order it and commit it?
Do Jesus' carved in stone words apply to God too? If so, will God be punished in the afterlife for his evil deeds?
Are there no consequences for God's evil deeds? Is that the source of your belief that wihout consequence in some afterlife, people will choose to be evil?
We are now looking at the Great Atrocity debate again. And the old canard that without following "Christ's' words' we'll see no reason not to engage in acts of genocide or what - not (usually with reference to Stalin or Pol pot).
But I hardly need point out that Christian nations carried on the same old wars, oppression and acts of genocide, conviction that they were acting in accordance with God's wishes just acting as an easy pretext without having to find some political reason.
No, Christianity or any other religion is not the recipe for world peace. Nor perhaps is atheism, Though there are signs that an increase in humanist -based governments brought about the idea that war was not a good and glorious thing (especially a Holy war) but something we ought to try to put an end to. I don't deny we haven't succeeded very well.
It's very easy to suggest that only Gospel exhortations to love and peace will prevent people from thinking they can do what they like to others. But scrutiny will show this thinking is a bit screwed up. As pointed out above, The OT is full of appalling acts of violence and genocide. But then we are told that that is just the Ot. As though it wasn't the same God.
That doesn't prevent the faithful from referencing the OT to justify some hate-campaign of theirs, But one doesn't have to look very far in the gospels to find seething hatred of anyone who is not of the Jesus -group, nor to find relish at the fate that awaits them and how God is actively intervening (hardening their hearts, for example) to make sure they get it. And Muscular Christianity (all done out of "Love" of course) can easily be justified with a whip of cords used to lash the unrighteous and the defiler's of God's word out of the temple.
No, Christ's words nor his religion have never been a passport to pacifism and never will be. but more humanism and less religion might help.
Oh. and a snippit from the Theist= english dictionary
"I am tired" translates into "I'm losing the argument".
Forgive an old man's rambling on.....but there's a thesis to be written yet on faith and self confidence, and feelings of being supported by some outside agency -a Cause, a religion or 'Destiny'. It can lead one to excell on the football pitch or the battlefield. And success proves of course that the cause, religion, Destiny or whatever is true. It is very effective, but the men who are so effective in driving on Berlin are a positive nuisance in peacetime.
But the effect when the justifications one has leaned to recite get knocked down one after the other - which of course is taken as a personal attack - and the response is bruised hostility and a bewildered martyr's protest about why we are being so rude and aggressive, while a perfect stream of accusation of being denialist, ignorant, prideful, intolerant, thinking we know it all, and especially, devoid of morality, being prone to acts of murder, rape and genocide and fornicating in the streets, is a feeling of weariness a desire to agree to differ, scrape a draw or claim the intention was never to persuade the other side (oh yeah?) in order to beat a retreat with a parthian shot of hellthreat before dabbing at the wounds for a while before topping up the propaganda -banks from some apologetics book or site and popping up on another thread with a whole new se of arguments - or, rather, the same ones in different packaging.
Like i said before, the debate is over as the What, and is about sussed as regards to How, and the 'why' is what interests me now.
We know that the god in the head these people believe in is their own Id inflated to divinity, but the ways his causes them to act and interact is ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6MkESn1v1w
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 05-20-2017 at 03:03 AM..
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