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Old 07-28-2017, 12:20 PM
 
63,809 posts, read 40,087,129 times
Reputation: 7871

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post
Mystic, you're so set on arguing with what I said, you didn't even understand what I said. My point was, that the law was never destroyed, it still judges you, and the ONLY way it doesn't is IF by the SPIRIT, you overcome WHAT was worthy of judgment. The fact you're NOT BREAKING IT, doesn't mean, IT DOESN'T EXIST.
I do understand you, Rbbi. The law was our species' schoolmaster to evolve our self-control using fear of God as the motive (the beginning of wisdom). It worked and we have Jesus who had perfect self-control out of love for us all. He achieved what none of us could and connected us all to God as a result. The purpose of the law is finished because Jesus fulfilled its purpose of connecting us all to God in Spirit. As Jesus said, the fields are ripe for the harvest and all we need to do is adopt the Spirit (of Agape) and love God and each other every day and repent when we don't to achieve the cover of His perfection (Grace).

 
Old 07-28-2017, 12:22 PM
 
9,588 posts, read 5,043,563 times
Reputation: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Wrong. The Comforter sent in Christ's name guides us to the truth God has "written in our hearts." The Comforter IS the Holy Spirit of Agape.

John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Romans 7:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of Spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

2 Corinthians 3: 2-6 (King James Version)
2Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Now: reconcile THIS ^^^with THIS >>> an excellent teaching by Eddie Chumney.....Not Under Law But Under Grace


MOST CHRISTIANS CAN'T TELL YOU THE CONTEXT OF THE VERSE:
'...for ye are not under the law but under grace'

Most Christians can't tell you where the verse, '...for ye are not under the law but under grace' is in the Bible or the CONTEXT of the verse. Therefore, let us examine the CONTEXT and teaching of Paul regarding this verse. But first, let us examine Paul's teaching in general about salvation in Messiah and the role of Torah in the life of a believer in the Messiah.
SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH

Paul clearly teaches in the NT that our salvation in Messiah is by grace through faith.
KJV Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
So, we are saved by grace through faith. We are NOT saved by our own good merit or our own good works.
KJV Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

SAVED UNTO GOOD WORKS
Does our salvation by grace through faith mean that we DON'T persue GOOD WORKS? The answer is that someone saved in Messiah WILL PERSUE GOOD WORKS. However, the GOOD WORKS DON'T SAVE them. GOOD WORKS is a RESULT of being SAVED by GRACE through FAITH.
KJV Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, CREATED in CHRIST JESUS unto GOOD WORKS, which God hath before ordained that we SHOULD WALK in them.
KJV Matthew 5:16 Let your LIGHT so shine before MEN, that they may SEE your GOOD WORKS, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
KJV Titus 3:7 That being JUSTIFIED BY his GRACE, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
KJV Titus 3:8 This is a FAITHFUL SAYING, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to MAINTAIN GOOD WORKS. These things are good and profitable unto men.
KJV Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to GOOD WORKS:
LIGHT SHINE = GOOD WORKS
Messiah taught that GOOD WORKS is associated with your LIGHT shining.
KJV Matthew 5:16 Let your LIGHT so shine before MEN, that they may SEE your GOOD WORKS, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
What is LIGHT?

TORAH / KEEPING COMMANDMENTS = LIGHT
KJV Proverbs 6:23 For the COMMANDMENT is a LAMP; and the TORAH is LIGHT; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
KJV Isaiah 51:4 Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a TORAH shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a LIGHT of the PEOPLE.
KJV Isaiah 8:20 To the LAW and to the testimony: if they SPEAK NOT according to this word, it is because there is NO LIGHT in them.
Therefore, when Messiah was saying, you are the LIGHT of the WORLD ... let them SEE your GOOD WORKS, He was telling those that believed that He is the Messiah to FOLLOW TORAH.

TORAH / KEEPING COMMANDMENTS = HOW WE WALK
KJV Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, CREATED in CHRIST JESUS unto GOOD WORKS, which God hath before ordained that we SHOULD WALK in them.
We are to WALK in GOOD WORKS. "Walking" is a Hebrew idiom for "following Torah". The Jewish people refer to the way in which you seek to follow Torah is HALACHAH. HALACHAH comes from the Hebrew word HALAK which means, "to walk". So, keeping the commandments / Torah is the WAY that one WALKS.
KJV Exodus 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will WALK in my TORAH, or no.
KJV Joshua 22:5 But take diligent heed to DO the COMMANDMENT and the TORAH, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to WALK in all his WAYS, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.
KJV 1 Kings 2:3 And keep the charge of the LORD thy God, to WALK in his WAYS, to KEEP his statutes, and his COMMANDMENTS, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is WRITTEN in the TORAH of Moses, that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself:
KJV Psalm 78:10 They kept not the covenant of God, and REFUSED to WALK in his TORAH;
KJV Psalm 119:1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who WALK in the TORAH of the LORD.
KJV Jeremiah 26:4 And thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD; If ye will not hearken to me, to WALK in my TORAH, which I have set before you,
KJV 1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and KEEPETH NOT his COMMANDMENTS, is a LIAR, and the truth is not in him.
KJV 1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to WALK (follow Torah), even as HE (Messiah) WALKED (follow Torah)

PAUL TAUGHT: .SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH
KJV Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH WITHOUT the DEEDS (trusting in your OWN GOOD WORKS) of the law.
KJV Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall JUSTIFY the CIRCUMCISION (Jew) by FAITH, and UNCIRCUMCISION (non-Jew) through FAITH.

PAUL TAUGHT: SAVED BY FAITH TO KEEP TORAH
KJV Romans 3:31 Do we then MAKE VOID the TORAH through FAITH? GOD FORBID: yea, we ESTABLISH the TORAH.
Ever since I was five years old, I don't think that I EVER remember anyone in church, radio or TV quote Paul's teaching of Romans 3:31: 'Do we make void the Torah through faith? God forbid, we ESTABLISH the TORAH'.

However, I have heard THOUSANDS of TIMES:
'...for ye are not under the law but under grace'
If Paul taught in Romans 3:31 that AFTER we are SAVED by GRACE through FAITH (Romans 3:28:30) that we are to ESTABLISH (follow) the TORAH ...

If Paul taught in Ephesians 2:10 that AFTER we are SAVED by GRACE through FAITH (Ephesians 2:8-9) that we are CREATED unto MESSIAH to do GOOD WORKS ....
Then how do we think that Paul taught differently quoting the verse, ' ..for ye are not under the law but under grace' ???
It is because we have taken the verse, ' ..for ye are not under the law but under grace' OUT OF CONTEXT and have TWISTED the teachings of Paul.

UNLEARNED = TWIST THE TEACHINGS OF PAUL
Peter wrote that:
KJV 2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother PAUL also according to the WISDOM given unto him hath written unto you;
KJV 2 Peter 3:16 As also in ALL his EPISTLES, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are UNLEARNED and unstable TWIST, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

WHO ARE THE UNLEARNED?
The unlearned don't know or follow Torah. The learned follow Torah.
KJV Deuteronomy 31:12 Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may LEARN, and fear the LORD your God, and OBSERVE to do all the words of this LAW:
KJV Psalm 119:7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have LEARNED thy righteous JUDGMENTS.
Peter said that those who are "unlearned" (don't follow Torah) TWIST the teaching of Paul. How? It is because there is a TERMINOLOGY to understanding TORAH like:
#1) Wisdom = Walking in Torah
#2) Light = Walking in Torah
#3) Truth = Walking in Torah
The UNLEARNED won't recognize the 'coded' words used by the Messiah or by Paul in the way in which they teach Torah.

MESSIAH SPOKE IN PARABLES SO UNLEARNED WON'T UNDERSTAND
KJV Matthew 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
A 'parable' is a CODED message.
The TORAH is taught as a PARABLE.
KJV Psalm 78:1 {Maschil of Asaph.} Give EAR, O my people, to my TORAH: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.
KJV Psalm 78:2 I will OPEN my MOUTH in a PARABLE: I will utter dark sayings of old:
Messiah taught in PARABLES (coded Torah language).
KJV Matthew 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the MYSTERIES of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
The word, 'mystery' is a CODED Torah understanding. There are four primary levels to interpreting Torah.
#1) Peshat: Literal
#2) Ramez: Allusion. One Scripture alluding to another Scripture
#3) Derash: Homiletical. Parables
#4) Sod: Deeper 'hidden' meaning of a Torah text. The 'hidden' meaning is the HEART (true meaning) of the TORAH
Messiah said that the 'Mystery' (SOD) level of Torah is given to His disciples (those that follow Torah). Those who are 'unlearned' (don't follow or understand Torah) won't understand the 'hidden' teachings of the Messiah.
KJV Matthew 13:12 For whosoever hath (seeks to follow Torah), to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: (more Torah knowledge) but whosoever hath not (doesn't follow Torah), from him shall be taken away (his knowledge of the Bible will be so basic that they have trouble understanding the BASIC things like a believer in YHVH through Messiah will follow Torah) even that he hath.

KJV Matthew 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing SEE NOT; and hearing they HEAR NOT, neither do they understand.

LITERAL AND REDEEMED JACOB IS BLIND
Who sees and sees not? Who hears (tries to follow the ways of YHVH) and hears not? It is the LITERAL house of Jacob (whom we recognize today as JEWS) and the REDEEMED house of Jacob (whom we recongnize as CHRISTIANS).
Messiah rules over a REDEEMED house of Jacob.
KJV Luke 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Why does the LITERAL house of Jacob and the REDEEMED house of Jacob see but see not and hear but hear not? It is because the LITERAL house of Jacob have walked away from the LIVING TORAH (Messiah) and the REDEEMED house of Jacob have walked away from the WRITTEN TORAH.
KJV Isaiah 42:18 Hear, ye DEAF; and look, ye BLIND, that ye may see.
KJV Isaiah 42:19 Who is BLIND, but MY SERVANT? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and BLIND as the LORD'S SERVANT?
KJV Isaiah 42:20 SEEING many things, but thou OBSERVE NOT; OPENING the EARS, but he HEARETH NOT.
KJV Isaiah 42:24 Who gave JACOB for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not the LORD, he against whom we have sinned? for they would NOT WALK in his WAYS, neither were they obedient unto his TORAH.
So, Messiah spoke in parables so that those who follow Torah will understand what He taught and increase in their Torah knowledge. Those who don't follow Torah won't understand the teachings of the Messiah.

UNLEARNED TWIST TO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION
What is the DESTRUCTION of the UNLEARNED (those that don't follow Torah in Messiah) ??? They are LEAST in the Kingdom or they are NOT the Bride of Messiah.
KJV Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall BREAK one of these LEAST COMMANDMENTS, and shall TEACH MEN so, he shall be called the LEAST in the KINGDOM of heaven: but whosoever shall DO and TEACH them, the same shall be called GREAT in the KINGDOM of heaven.

PAUL WAS GIVEN WISDOM = KNOWLEDGE OF TORAH
KJV 2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother PAUL also according to the WISDOM given unto him hath written unto you;
What is this WISDOM which Paul was given? It is the KNOWLEDGE of TORAH and the desire to FOLLOW TORAH.
KJV Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for LACK of KNOWLEDGE: because thou hast REJECTED KNOWLEDGE, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast FORGOTTEN the TORAH of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
KJV Malachi 2:7 For the priest's lips should KEEP KNOWLEDGE, and they should SEEK the TORAH at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.
KJV 1 Chronicles 22:12 Only the LORD give thee WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING, and give thee charge concerning Israel, that thou mayest KEEP the TORAH of the LORD thy God.
KJV Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of WISDOM: a good understanding have all they that DO his COMMANDMENTS: his praise endureth for ever.
KJV Deuteronomy 4:5 Behold, I have taught you STATUTES and JUDGMENTS, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should DO so in the land whither ye go to possess it.
KJV Deuteronomy 4:6 KEEP therefore and DO them; for this is your WISDOM and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.
WHAT DID PETER SAY?
Peter said that Paul was given WISDOM (knowledge of Torah) by God and those who are UNLEARNED (don't know Torah) TWIST (wrongly interpret) the teaching of Paul to their OWN DESTRUCTION (keep them from receiving blessings from YHVH for DOING His commandments thus being GREAT in the Kingdom.)
KJV 2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother PAUL also according to the WISDOM given unto him hath written unto you;
KJV 2 Peter 3:16 As also in ALL his EPISTLES, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are UNLEARNED and unstable TWIST, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

WHAT DID PAUL MEAN WHEN HE SAID
'...for ye are not under the law but under grace'
So based upon what has been written in this article so far, what really did Paul mean when he said, '...for ye are not under the law but under grace' ??? To begin with, we need to read this verse in CONTEXT. This verse is found in Romans 6:14.
KJV Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
So, if this is the 14th verse of Romans 6 what is the CONTEXT? What is said in Romans 6:1-13 which forms the CONTEXT of Romans 6:14?
Let's now examine Romans 6:1-14.
KJV Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Paul begins by asking a question. Should we SIN so that GRACE may abound? Before we can understand Paul's question, we need to understand the definition of sin.
KJV 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
So, Pau was asking, 'Do we SIN = (BREAK THE COMMANDMENTS) so that grace may abound?
Does it make sense that MESSIAH FORGAVE us of our SIN = BREAKING THE COMMANDMENTS so that we can SIN (NOT follow His commandments) ??
Well, Paul has an answer to that question.
KJV Romans 6:2 GOD FORBID. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Paul's answer to this question was: JUST SAY NO!
Shall we purposely SIN = BREAK THE COMMANDMENTS so that we can receive GRACE AFTER we are saved (Romans 3:28-30) ??? YHVH FORBID!

FORGIVEN FROM SIN = DEAD TO SIN
KJV Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Now, Paul begins to make an analogy:
Dead to sin = Baptized unto death of Messiah = Died for our SINS
In other words, once we are FORGIVEN of our SIN through Messiah, we are NOT to persue a LIFE of SIN (breaking the Torah). Our desires should be to seek to be a HOLY people and NOT peruse living a SINFUL LIFE. In we seek to be a HOLY people, we are 'DEAD TO SIN'.
Paul is equating being DEAD TO SIN with the DEATH OF MESSIAH.
KJV Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
KJV Romans 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Since we are DEAD TO SIN which Paul is comparing to the DEATH OF MESSIAH, we have been "raised up from the dead" (FORGIVEN OF OUR SINS) so we should WALK in newness of life.
WALK is a Torah 'code' word for OBEYING TORAH.
So, Paul is saying that we have been FORGIVEN of our SINS for the purpose of WALKING (obeying Torah) in NEWNESS OF LIFE.
KJV Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
KJV Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

OLD MAN = FLESH = CRUCIFIED = FORGIVEN BY MESSIAH
Paul is saying that now since we have a NEW HEART and have REPENTED of our SINS and thus have our SINS FORGIVEN that the OLD MAN or the FLESH who DESIRED to SIN should be CRUCIFIED so that we don't SERVE the FLESH or SERVE SIN.
DEAD TO SIN = OLD MAN = FLESH = CRUCIFIED = DIED WITH MESSIAH

KJV Romans 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
DEAD WITH CHRIST = SINS FORGIVEN = OLD MAN = CRUCIFIED
LIVE WITH CHRIST = WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE = FOLLOW TORAH
KJV Romans 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
KJV Romans 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
KJV Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
KJV Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

If the OLD MAN has been CRUCIFIED = DEATH OF MESSIAH then
NEW MAN = NEW HEART = FOLLOW TORAH then
the rebellious heart to NOT follow Torah and wants to SIN shouldn't have dominion (power) over us.

REBELLIOUS HEART = STONY HEART = NOT FOLLOW TORAH
KJV Zechariah 7:11 But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and STOPPED their EARS, that they should NOT HEAR.
JV Zechariah 7:12 Yea, they made their HEARTS as an ADAMANT STONE, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets:

NEW HEART = HOLY SPIRIT = SEEKS TO FOLLOW TORAH
KJV Ezekiel 36:26 A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will TAKE AWAY the STONEY HEART out of your flesh, and I will give you an HEART of FLESH.

OLD MAN = FLESH = STONEY HEART = DEATH OF MESSIAH
KJV Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put MY SPIRIT within you, and cause you to WALK in my statutes, and ye shall KEEP my judgments, and DO them.
NEW MAN = HEART OF FLESH = WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE = RESURRECTION OF THE MESSIAH
KJV Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are ALIVE from the DEAD, and your members as INSTRUMENTS of RIGHTEOUSNESS unto God.
SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH = DEAD TO SIN
NEW MAN = ALIVE FROM DEAD = RESURRECTION OF MESSAH
NEW MAN = ALIVE FROM DEAD = INSTRUMENT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS

NEW MAN = ALIVE FROM DEAD = FOLLOW TORAH
NEW MAN = ALIVE FROM DEAD = GOOD WORKS
So, the CONTEXT of Romans 6:1-13 is that Paul is saying that a believer in Messiah should NOT SIN (break the Torah commandments) because that OLD MAN who desired to SIN has been CRUCIFIED with Messiah so that the NEW MAN who has been FORGIVEN from his SINS should WALK in NEWNESS of LIFE (follow Torah) and be an instrument of righteousness (produce GOOD WORKS by following Torah).
Next, Paul says the FAMOUS VERSE:
KJV Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
KJV 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
SIN (breaking the commandments) shall NOT have dominion over you!
In Romans 6:14, Paul is saying (for those who are LEARNED in Torah) that we should FOLLOW TORAH because SIN (breaking Torah) shall not have dominion over you.
KJV Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Under the law? What law is Paul talking about in Romans 6:1-13? The Torah? NO! He is talking about the LAW of SIN and DEATH.
THE LAW of our FLESH that cause us to SIN shall NOT have dominion over us because that OLD MAN has been CRUCIFIED with Messiah and by being FORGIVEN of our SINS (breaking the Torah) YHVH has extended GRACE / MERCY to us to allow our SINS to be FORGIVEN.
YHVH extends GRACE / MERCY to those that KEEP His commandments.
KJV Exodus 20:6 And shewing MERCY unto thousands of them that love me, and KEEP my COMMANDMENTS.
KJV Psalm 103:17 But the MERCY of the LORD is from EVERLASTING to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;
KJV Psalm 103:18 To such as KEEP his covenant, and to those that REMEMBER his COMMANDMENTS to DO them.

WHAT WAS PAUL SAYING IN ROMANS 6:14 ????
KJV Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

THE LAW of our FLESH that causes us to SIN shall NOT have dominion over us because that OLD MAN has been CRUCIFIED with Messiah and being FORGIVEN of our SINS (breaking the Torah) YHVH has extended GRACE / MERCY to us to allow our SINS to be FORGIVEN.
Since GRACE / MERCY has been extended to us to allow our SINS to be FORGIVEN through Messiah dying on the tree, YHVH has given us His MERCY / GRACE to those that LOVE HIM and WALK in HIS COMMANDMENTS. Those who do so will produce GOOD WORKS.
GOOD WORKS (following Torah and being a LIGHT in a world of darkness) is the FRUIT of someone FORGIVEN of their SINS and who DESIRES to show our LOVE to YHVH through Messiah by KEEPING His commandments. Those who choose to do so will be given MERCY / GRACE by YHVH as they seek with all their heart to be OBEDIENT unto Him, KEEP His commandments and produce GOOD WORKS (fruits of righteousness) for the GLORY of HIS KINGDOM.
Messiah said:
KJV John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
 
Old 07-28-2017, 12:44 PM
 
9,588 posts, read 5,043,563 times
Reputation: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I do understand you, Rbbi. The law was our species' schoolmaster to evolve our self-control using fear of God as the motive (the beginning of wisdom). It worked and we have Jesus who had perfect self-control out of love for us all. He achieved what none of us could and connected us all to God as a result. The purpose of the law is finished because Jesus fulfilled its purpose of connecting us all to God in Spirit. As Jesus said, the fields are ripe for the harvest and all we need to do is adopt the Spirit (of Agape) and love God and each other every day and repent when we don't to achieve the cover of His perfection (Grace).

The purpose of the law will NEVER be finished until heaven and earth have passed away. Did I miss their passing (looks out window)? Nope, it's still here. Peace
 
Old 07-28-2017, 03:21 PM
 
63,809 posts, read 40,087,129 times
Reputation: 7871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post
Now: reconcile THIS ^^^with THIS >>> an excellent teaching by Eddie Chumney.....Not Under Law But Under Grace
MOST CHRISTIANS CAN'T TELL YOU THE CONTEXT OF THE VERSE:
'...for ye are not under the law but under grace'
Most Christians can't tell you where the verse, '...for ye are not under the law but under grace' is in the Bible or the CONTEXT of the verse. Therefore, let us examine the CONTEXT and teaching of Paul regarding this verse. But first, let us examine Paul's teaching in general about salvation in Messiah and the role of Torah in the life of a believer in the Messiah.
SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH

Paul clearly teaches in the NT that our salvation in Messiah is by grace through faith.
KJV Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
So, we are saved by grace through faith. We are NOT saved by our own good merit or our own good works.
KJV Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
SAVED UNTO GOOD WORKS
Does our salvation by grace through faith mean that we DON'T persue GOOD WORKS? The answer is that someone saved in Messiah WILL PERSUE GOOD WORKS. However, the GOOD WORKS DON'T SAVE them. GOOD WORKS is a RESULT of being SAVED by GRACE through FAITH.
The reason our works have nothing to do with salvation is that Jesus already saved us. All the concern over salvation is pointless because it is finished and we have nothing to do with it. Sanctification under His grace is our only concern and that is accomplished by the love of God and each other every day and by repenting when we don't. Nothing in your long copy/paste refutes that.
 
Old 07-28-2017, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,920,829 times
Reputation: 1874
The wall of text in post 1192 is an impressive example of the hoop-jumping I have mentioned or the kind of sophistry that tries to turn the meaning around 180 degrees. It won't fool people who can read plain meaning and check context and word usage.

You simply can't see that the LAW is no longer a basis for judgement (reaping what we sow) but the condition of our hearts. It is not a matter of formal obedience to specific commands, but of following the Spirit of love. When we do that the purpose of the law is fulfilled when formal obedience can't fulfill the purpose, but only control actions.
 
Old 07-28-2017, 04:21 PM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,088 posts, read 29,223,196 times
Reputation: 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post
Now: reconcile THIS ^^^with THIS >>> an excellent teaching by Eddie Chumney.....Not Under Law But Under Grace

SNIPPED TO SAVE THE BULL SOME PAIN.
EDDIE CHUMNEY is NOT, I REPEAT, he is NOT JESUS, nor is HE GOD...

His words are those of a sad lonely man who would be king..I bet he has tiny hands too.
 
Old 07-28-2017, 04:22 PM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post
The purpose of the law will NEVER be finished until heaven and earth have passed away. Did I miss their passing (looks out window)? Nope, it's still here. Peace
Jesus said the law has been FULFILLED and no longer has any purpose.
 
Old 07-28-2017, 05:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
Jesus said the law has been FULFILLED and no longer has any purpose.

NO, He said He didn't come to DESTROY IT, then He went on to one of the feasts (paraphrasing) Peace
 
Old 07-28-2017, 05:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
The wall of text in post 1192 is an impressive example of the hoop-jumping I have mentioned or the kind of sophistry that tries to turn the meaning around 180 degrees. It won't fool people who can read plain meaning and check context and word usage.

You simply can't see that the LAW is no longer a basis for judgement (reaping what we sow) but the condition of our hearts. It is not a matter of formal obedience to specific commands, but of following the Spirit of love. When we do that the purpose of the law is fulfilled when formal obedience can't fulfill the purpose, but only control actions.

And He said, if any man loves Him, he will keep His commandments. The real problem is with my long post is that you can't reply and refute any of it, except with "nuh hh" as usual. Peace
 
Old 07-28-2017, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,184,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post
And He said, if any man loves Him, he will keep His commandments. The real problem is with my long post is that you can't reply and refute any of it, except with "nuh hh" as usual. Peace
"Nuh-uh" does it too much honour.

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