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"Critical thinking is self-guided, self-disciplined thinking which attempts to reason at the highest level of quality in a fair-minded way. They are keenly aware of the inherently flawed nature of human thinking when left unchecked.
"They strive to diminish the power of their egocentric and sociocentric tendencies.... They work diligently to develop the intellectual virtues of integrity, humbleness, civility, empathy, sense of justice.
"They realize that no matter how skilled they are as thinkers, they can always improve their reasoning abilities and they will always at times fall prey to mistakes in reasoning, human irrationality, prejudices, biases, distortions, ...
"They strive never to think simplistically about complicated issues and always consider the rights and needs of relevant others. They recognize the complexities in developing as thinkers, and commit themselves to life-long practice toward self-improvement. .
~ Linda Elder
And thank you to Gaylen for bringing into this thread the awareness and attention to critical thinking and rational discourse.
People are never going to agree on how they want to live. There is nothing irrational about this. Some people like chocolate and other people like pizza. There's no right or wrong here. Some people will want to live one way and other people will want to live a different way. We shouldn't even be trying to force everyone to live the same way. We should simply go our separate ways. Forcing everybody to live according to one code is what the Bible calls Babel. It's confusion.
There is a difference between what we make laws about and what we don't. If it was discovered that chocolate caused cancer we might have to make laws about that, too. Until we do, people's preferences are their own affair and should not not be treated as though they were moral or legal matters.
Though often they are. The amount of bitter accusation that I see in the world of musical appreciation is witness to that. It is considered a moral failing if not damn' near a matter that deserves a fine or a prison sentence if you like the wrong kind of music.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 01-28-2018 at 01:26 PM..
Well you see that's an example of how you want to live. Allow people to do whatever they want unless it's a clear and present danger to society. But other people aren't going to want to live like that. Some people are going to want to live in a nice quiet place with lots of laws against all sorts of things. Who are you to tell them that they can't live the way they want?
Well you see that's an example of how you want to live. Allow people to do whatever they want unless it's a clear and present danger to society. But other people aren't going to want to live like that. Some people are going to want to live in a nice quiet place with lots of laws against all sorts of things. Who are you to tell them that they can't live the way they want?
Nobody. or everybody. That is what society is all about.
Yes a civilized society treats everyone as equals. Everyone in the society must be subject to the same laws. But not everybody is going to want to live in the same way and that is why we need to go our separate ways. Some people need to form their own separate society in their own separate part of the world and live the way they want according to whatever laws they want and let other people do the same.
They would probably need to be some sort of overarching legal system to which they are all subject.
And for some atheists, that could be true, but in fact the basis of the atheist argument is rational critical thinking and for theism it is faith.
All the time you ignore that, each and every one of these 'see how it applies to you' examples is going to be invalid.
No....YOU overlook that the Atheists work off of "Faith & Belief" as well....just like everyone else, about anything else.
You have faith in your belief that there is no evidence of Gods (just Deity Gods, of course. NonDeity Gods do have objective evidence for their existence) that you are not aware of yet.
There could be...and you can never be 100% objectively certain there isn't...since you cannot possibly check everywhere.
Think critically all you want...you just have Faith your hunch is correct.
I agree that it is a high probability...but I only have Faith it is, I can't know for sure.
Since we are talking about human behavior, and we have previously established the diversity within every group, then this statement of yours holds true for and applies to atheists as well.
Let's try it on for size. This is how it sounds.
"Most (a large majority) of militant atheists who attack faith in traditional holy-book-based conceptions of God are failing to apply (or choosing not to apply) critical thinking skills when it comes to discussions about the existence and nature of God.
"Pay close attention to how specific I am trying to be. Militant atheists can be highly intelligent and great critical thinkers in other areas of life, but when it comes to this particular topic, their critical-thinking skills get muddied by emotional bias. "
You might have a point if the "traditional holy-book-based conceptions of God were not internally inconsistent, demonstrating conflicting perceptions within any of the books investigated here, especially the scriptures underlying the Abrahamic religions.
and speaking of "anti religious zealots" we have Matie's link, which comes to us from "Hyperianism"
it states "Science is the new irrational religion"
"Hyperianism, the mathematical system that will replace science and religion. The system of the future is here. Your world, in its current state, is a hell. capitalism and consumerism has turned humanity into brain dead shoppers . Vile religions dominate the globe spreading sexism, homophobia and violence. They are a mental plague far worse than any physical disease. These restrictive thought systems have caused immense sexual repression . Hyperianism will create a new world free from hateful religions. “What is rational is real; And what is real is rational.”
"We absolutely reject all mainstream religions, faith based religions as well as those religions based on mysticism. Hyperians realize, understand, and consciously acknowledge that truth is discovered through reason and logic. Anything that contradicts reason is false. Reason must be the supreme code on which your Mind operates. If your Mind does not operate on reason then it will inevitably hold many contradictory and insane beliefs, as is clearly seen in the insane religious systems that exist in your world today.
"traditional morality as a set of unchanging rights and wrongs is a disastrous and illogical idea, one which we absolutely reject. We do not support unconditional love. "Ultimately, Hyperianism is 100% founded on logic and reason as expressed through mathematics, which leads to ultimate knowledge and freedom. . If you place anything above reason, such as feelings, the senses, or intuition, then you are NOT a Hyperian. something higher is the Hyperian. The information we are bringing to this world is something it has never seen before. For the first time we are bringing the truth of existence into public awareness. ."If you seek to create a new world free of mainstream religion then join Hyperianism and create with us a new world. We are the future."
Would you join this group?
Would you date someone who sounds like this? Or trust them to watch your children?
nope.
been calling out hyper anti-religious socialism from outside the USA's borders for a awhile now.
Their sole purpose is anti-religion socialism. They are not interested in describing how the universe works.
anti-religious socialism is the single biggest threat to the freedom and liberty for all people in the united states today. especially from those outside the our borders.
Logic, reason (and intelligence), vary from person to person.
What's logical to you may not be logical to someone else.
What's reasonable to someone else, may not be reasonable to you?
and hence you need a judge who lays the guidelines of what's logical and what's reasonable for the enitre mankind on a uniform level.
But yes, I do agree with your second line, this "love" jazz doesn't really work all the time for all humans.
The "'love' jazz" grandpa references is not just a warm fuzzy feeling, but is exactly what he is talking about in terms of respect: a concern for the well-being of everyone in any situation. That's why those who actually understand this specify "agape" in their presentation, and why the failure to understand this leads to so much confusion and drivel from those who refuse to give up the idea that "love" is just "warm fuzzies."
'logical" is simply logical or it is not. The only difference in what is to one person and not to another is what premises the logic is based on, which is why internal consistency is such a pitfall for "holy-book-based" apologists.
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