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I am not going fishing, if you have a particular miracle in mind post it.
Miracles break the rules of science. Your "guide to what is literal" as I read it then is that the miracles did not really happen. I'm asking you a simple question using your own "guide to what is literal and real" did the miracles really hapoen?
It appears you are reluctant to do this.
Pick 3 or 4 examples to illustrate the "guide" you are giving people to use so we can see how you apply it.
Miracles break the rules of science. Your "guide to what is literal" as I read it then is that the miracles did not really happen. I'm asking you a simple question using your own "guide to what is literal and real" did the miracles really hapoen?
It appears you are reluctant to do this.
Pick 3 or 4 examples to illustrate the "guide" you are giving people to use so we can see how you apply it.
You misunderstood me a little I think. Science cannot explain everything but is helpful in separating logos from mythos if the science is based on hard facts (ex. gravity) and not just a hypothesis.
And I did give an example from the bible with the impregnation of Mary by the Holy Spirit, which most hold to as a miraculous event.
So do you notice a change in what the bible says concerning God?
Sure I do. I also note a change in the character of Severus Snape in the Harry Potter books. It could be a sign of an unfolding narrative, or it could be a technique introduced to retcon the character of god. So what? These are common tachniques in fiction.
We haven't moved beyond first orinciple here though, and you continually ignore this point. Can you prove the existence of any god, or more specifically, since you keep coming back the the Bible, can you prove the existence of the God of the Bible and Jesus Christ as a component/avatar of God?
Quote:
If you read the bible at all you can see a huge change in understanding God with the arrival of Jesus. The message of fear and separation was replaced with the message of love for all humankind and togetherness. The middle wall of separation was broken down and all humanity is seen as brothers and sisters. That is a total change from the my God your God mentality, the mentality that this group of people are more special then another group of people that has encompassed man and still does in many circles.
Sure. The narrative evolves. Prove that it is anything other than a collection of stories. Prove that our knowledge and use of this knowledge has advanced at all in the past 2000 years. Prove that your god is any more real than another person's god. Why should I acknowledge the Bible as anything other than fable? Prove any advancement at all based on the Bible. Prove any sort of utility provided by religion, or if you don't like that term, provided by Jesus.
Quote:
What I am espousing is that people are to have the same mind the Jesus had toward God and one another. As you do not believe in God we can deal with the mind of Christ; which as I said above is a togetherness for all humankind.
God and Christ are the same thing really. I tend to use lower case god when trying to be inclusive of all religions, and upper case when referring to the proper name of the Christian god. Since you seem to want to use Christianity as a basis for discussion, please feel free to explain what following God/Jesus means, and why I should believe any of it.
If you feel like typing a bit more, what differentiates God/Jesus from religion?
Last edited by fishbrains; 07-02-2017 at 10:19 AM..
You misunderstood me a little I think. Science cannot explain everything but is helpful in separating logos from mythos if the science is based on hard facts (ex. gravity) and not just a hypothesis. ...
It sounds like you are saying what atheists say miracles don't happen there is a scientific explanation.
Bringing a dead person back to life real and literal? (Like Elijah did) Or "he wasn't really dead just in a coma".
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 07-02-2017 at 10:26 AM..
It sounds like you are saying what atheists say miracles don't happen there is a scientific explanation.
Bringing a dead person back to life real and literal? (Like Elijah did) Or "he wasn't really dead just in a coma".
well yes and no. science is always growing in knowledge and who know one day they maybe able to bring the dead back to life. They already have the hypothesis of freezing people and bring them back years in the future.
so to answer your question. I have not seen evidence of it but don't discount it.
well yes and no. science is always growing in knowledge and who know one day they maybe able to bring the dead back to life. They already have the hypothesis of freezing people and bring them back years in the future.
so to answer your question. I have not seen evidence of it but don't discount it.
So your fairh is in science. What is real and literal to you is defined for you by science.
Got it.
It seems you are saying exactly what atheists do, if science cant explain it, it is not real and did not happen.
So your fairh is in science. What is real and literal to you is defined for you by science.
Got it.
It seems you are saying exactly what atheists do, if science cant explain it, it is not real and did not happen.
No I am saying I simply don't know. If I saw someone rise from the dead even though science could not explain I would believe what I saw regardless of what science said.
Sure I do. I also note a change in the character of Severus Snape in the Harry Potter books. It could be a sign of an unfolding narrative, or it could be a technique introduced to retcon the character of god. So what? These are common tachniques in fiction.
We haven't moved beyond first orinciple here though, and you continually ignore this point. Can you prove the existence of any god, or more specifically, since you keep coming back the the Bible, can you prove the existence of the God of the Bible and Jesus Christ as a component/avatar of God?
Sure. The narrative evolves. Prove that it is anything other than a collection of stories. Prove that our knowledge and use of this knowledge has advanced at all in the past 2000 years. Prove that your god is any more real than another person's god. Why should I acknowledge the Bible as anything other than fable? Prove any advancement at all based on the Bible. Prove any sort of utility provided by religion, or if you don't like that term, provided by Jesus.
See here is where we part ways. I am not trying to prove God exists yet you keep insisting that I have to. And your version of God is the fundamental version as seen in you take on God and Jesus being the same being and that you hold to many different gods. there is only one God imo.
it is hard enough speaking with atheist as it is let alone when they add their own concept of God into the equation.
Quote:
God and Christ are the same thing really. I tend to use lower case god when trying to be inclusive of all religions, and upper case when referring to the proper name of the Christian god. Since you seem to want to use Christianity as a basis for discussion, please feel free to explain what following God/Jesus means, and why I should believe any of it.
If you feel like typing a bit more, what differentiates God/Jesus from religion?
I did in my last post when I said
If you read the bible at all you can see a huge change in understanding God with the arrival of Jesus. The message of fear and separation was replaced with the message of love for all humankind and togetherness. The middle wall of separation was broken down and all humanity is seen as brothers and sisters. That is a total change from the my God your God mentality, the mentality that this group of people are more special then another group of people that has encompassed man and still does in many circles.
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