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Old 07-09-2017, 12:12 PM
 
Location: USA
4,747 posts, read 2,346,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvette Ministries View Post
Dad: "I love you, Son!"

Son: "I need PROOF!"

Dad: "Can't you just BELIEVE?"
In 1994 a tornado hit the Goshen Alabama Methodist Church during Sunday service, causing the walls of the church to collapse. Twenty people died including six children. Why would God allow the deaths of those in His own house of worship, including the most innocent, who were there in the very act of worshiping him, when all He had to do was to prevent the walls from collapsing? The problem is that when put to the test, make believe is invariably unaffected by the harsh realities of real life. If a wall falls on you, or a mad man shoots you in the head, make believe does not serve as protection. Even for innocent children.
Piedmont Journal - Tried by Deadly Tornado, An Anchor of Faith Holds - NYTimes.com

Dad: I love you son.

Son: Then why did you allow a tornado to collapse the wall of our church, killing many of my friends and my entire family, when all you had to do was hold up the wall with a thought?

Dad: That would require me to take direct intervention. That would be cheating.

Son: And you call that LOVE?

Dad: Read the Book of Job. Love is what I decide that it is.
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Old 07-09-2017, 12:17 PM
 
1,788 posts, read 1,171,502 times
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Proof vs Faith ?

For myself I found the "proof" by my walk of "faith".

One day I heard the story of God and His Son, Jesus. I listened how They perceived me, according by what was written long ago. I listened and thought to myself is this real or is this just someone's magical promise of what is. It's hard to put into words, but I remember how I felt after I heard the "Good News of Jesus". I felt ashamed, because it was like.. I knew who I was inside. The deep inside person, that no one else knew but me and now here in front of me was someone telling me about myself, thru a Majestic set of Eyes from a Book, He supposedly inspired by men such as myself or any other person on this planet.
All of it condemning my Spirit. All of it knowing me before I was born. All of it telling me what I knew already inside me, but did I believe it? How do I describe a moment dictated by other men who wrote a book claiming to be inspired by a god? I think it depends on your current status of who you are inside, not what you have or your surroundings, but who you really are inside. I guess for some if you have deep pockets, it would be harder and for those with lessor probably easier. For me at the time, I was being well taken care of, we wanted for nothing. It was just me now and someone standing/sitting in front of me telling me about a Book claiming inspiration from a god, but did I believe it?

I remember my desires back then and the secret me inside. Didn't like it. Even memories now make me feel uncomfortable. I decided the only way to know for sure was to try. So I repented and prayed to Jesus and asked Him to forgive me of my sins according to what the Book/Bible claimed. I got down on knees and wept from feeling the guilt I already had inside me long before this Book came along and told me what was there. I didn't want to be that person any longer. As time passed I saw a difference of how I felt at first, but then I noticed something unusual also. You know how circumstances come along and by the end you really wish things would of turned out better? Well the circumstances always kept coming but the conclusions were/now are different. They are better. Always better. Sure bad things still happen. Sure I still feel miserable sometimes, but in the end of it.. it's different. It's not like the endings before the step of "repentance". My walk of faith (keeping whats right according to the book inside my heart) would lead to conclusions, that never existed before. Whether it was financial or a heartache it didn't matter. By the end of it I still felt ok or stronger or even happier. So now after trying to put all that in words I tell you. He's real. Jesus is very real. His Father is Awesome and one day things will be better. Our lives will always have heartaches and headaches, but I assure you with Them it is so much better. They loved you enough to do so many things you just have no idea to, except for what you've read. Please I implore you, don't let the darkness steal Them away from you. They love you so much. I know without a doubt God's Spirit is inside me and is inside each and everyone of those around this planet who "repented" because they Heard the Good News of Jesus, God's only Son and did something about it. God sent His Son to This World to "redeem" ("to take back possession of something once had) US BACK. Don't let evil steal it from you.

May God keep you All unto Him and His Son Jesus.













(repent)
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Old 07-09-2017, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Ft Myers, FL
2,771 posts, read 2,301,494 times
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Here where I live in Ft Myers, a 9 month pregnant woman, who is known to my church, was struck by lightning.

Why would a loving God strike a 9 mo. pregnant woman by lightning?

It's hard to explain. Perhaps you'll never understand.
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Old 07-09-2017, 12:35 PM
 
1,788 posts, read 1,171,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvette Ministries View Post
Here where I live in Ft Myers, a 9 month pregnant woman, who is known to my church, was struck by lightning.

Why would a loving God strike a 9 mo. pregnant woman by lightning?

It's hard to explain. Perhaps you'll never understand.
I've heard much worse and yes I do see your point and have had the same thoughts has you do now.
Can I give you a justifiable explanation, that anyone feeling bad after learning something awful such as what you said? No. No one can.

My thoughts are. I think God has no limitations but what He sets for Himself. I think God is able to do anything He can imagine. Then why do bad things happen? I believe God didn't create a robotic world. It's one of chaos, meaning no one directly pulls the strings but do influence in other ways. Who's to say God didn't take both of those Spirits right BEFORE the moment of the lightening strike? Then where's the grief? With those left standing who will miss them? With Her and her baby in Heaven- the most wonderful place of all? So many scenarios can be thought out by both sides. I don't think we should judge God by what happens for one day He will judge Us. I'm not trying to justify what happened, I'm trying to clarify what might of happened.
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Old 07-09-2017, 12:37 PM
 
1,788 posts, read 1,171,502 times
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One day we will remember each other.
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Old 07-09-2017, 12:49 PM
 
1,788 posts, read 1,171,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HushWhisper View Post
One day we will remember each other.
And I think also, those we despise and hate the most are the ones who stood closest to Us in Heaven.
(please think really hard by what I mean by that).
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Old 07-09-2017, 12:56 PM
 
Location: USA
4,747 posts, read 2,346,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvette Ministries View Post
Here where I live in Ft Myers, a 9 month pregnant woman, who is known to my church, was struck by lightning.

Why would a loving God strike a 9 mo. pregnant woman by lightning?

It's hard to explain. Perhaps you'll never understand.
The pregnant woman happen to be in the path of a flow of electrons. There is no rhyme, reason or moral to such an event. There is no lesson to be learned, and no one to blame. The woman was a victim of quantum mechanics, which is the basic reason why all things occur. Quantum mechanics is subject to the uncertainty principle. Just as life and death are.

In 2012, after shooting and killing his own mother, a mentally unstable man went to the Sandy Hook Elementary School and methodically shot 20 six year old children and a teacher in the head. A Supreme Being would really have come in handy that day. Did God just sit there and watch the whole thing? Or was he distracted, too busy fulfilling the mundane prayers of others? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_...chool_shooting

The point is, in real life what we actually observe is that when the chips are down and faith is confronted by reality, reality will ALWAYS win out. When the chips are down and a Supreme Being would really REALLY come in handy, God, invisible unknowable but assumed to exist anyway God, will invariably act in exactly the same manner as a God who isn't actually there. In fact a God who refuses to act even in the face of the ultimate crisis of life and death for the most innocent of His followers is a God who corresponds in every way to A GOD WHO NEVER EXISTED TO BEGIN WITH! What exactly is the difference? This is as close to an empirical test for the actual existence of God as one might reasonably hope for. And in these sorts of make or break tests, the result for the question "does God exist," invariably corresponds in every way to a negative finding.

Now let me make it clear. I do not blame God for what occurred at the Sandy Hook Elementary School, in exactly the same way that I hold no grudge against Santa for not ACTUALLY coming to my house each Christmas.

Much in the way there is no one to hold responsible for for a pregnant woman being struck by lighting.
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Old 07-09-2017, 12:59 PM
 
1,788 posts, read 1,171,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
The pregnant woman happen to be in the path of a flow of electrons. There is no rhyme, reason or moral to such an event. There is no lesson to be learned, and no one to blame. The woman was a victim of quantum mechanics, which is the basic reason why all things occur. Quantum mechanics is subject to the uncertainty principle. Just as life and death are.

In 2012, after shooting and killing his own mother, a mentally unstable man went to the Sandy Hook Elementary School and methodically shot 20 six year old children and a teacher in the head. A Supreme Being would really have come in handy that day. Did God just sit there and watch the whole thing? Or was he distracted, too busy fulfilling the mundane prayers of others? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_...chool_shooting

The point is, in real life what we actually observe is that when the chips are down and faith is confronted by reality, reality will ALWAYS win out. When the chips are down and a Supreme Being would really REALLY come in handy, God, invisible unknowable but assumed to exist anyway God, will invariably act in exactly the same manner as a God who isn't actually there. In fact a God who refuses to act even in the face of the ultimate crisis of life and death for the most innocent of His followers is a God who corresponds in every way to A GOD WHO NEVER EXISTED TO BEGIN WITH! What exactly is the difference? This is as close to an empirical test for the actual existence of God as one might reasonably hope for. And in these sorts of make or break tests, the result for the question "does God exist," invariably corresponds in every way to a negative finding.

Now let me make it clear. I do not blame God for what occurred at the Sandy Hook Elementary School, in exactly the same way that I hold no grudge against Santa for not ACTUALLY coming to my house each Christmas.

Much in the way there is no one to hold responsible for for a pregnant woman being struck by lighting.
I bet you were holding my hand when he fell from the Crown.

(gots to go mow)
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Old 07-09-2017, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Type 0.73 Kardashev
11,110 posts, read 9,804,566 times
Reputation: 40166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvette Ministries View Post
Dad: "I love you, Son!"

Son: "I need PROOF!"

Dad: "Can't you just BELIEVE?"
If my father - who hasn't bothered to contact me in the last 25 years - were to show up and pronounce his love for me, I wouldn't demand proof (see my last post if you're not as into playing Vizio-esque games of intentional obtuseness as you seem to be) but I'd certainly need to see some evidence of it before I'd serve up unquestioned acceptance of his love.

On the other hand, my wife and my children have demonstrated abundant love for me, so their professions of it are not at all far-fetched. In fact, they are amply supported by regularly-occurring, observable evidence.

See the difference?

You think that people believe unquestioningly that others love them. For the most part, they don't. Love is believed because love is demonstrated. Or, it isn't demonstrated and so professions of it ring hollow. That's why if my sister told me she loved me, I'd believe it - but if the waitress who took my lunch order today did the same, I wouldn't. Evidence. It's not complicated.

To equate believing that a parent who has spent years and years raising and caring for and nurturing and attending to and all that child-rearing entails loves a child, with believing that an unseen vaguely-described all-powerful entity exists (but only the one you prefer, and not all the other countless permutations people claim to be just as real) is laughable. And the fact that you think it's some sort of brilliant 'gotcha!' argument is rather pitiable.
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Old 07-09-2017, 04:09 PM
 
1,788 posts, read 1,171,502 times
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bitterness
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