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My point was: a lot of those thing found in your second paragraph cannot be realized by persons who are in an unhealthy psychological condition that is not of their doing.
Sure, I understand your point and it's not like I'm going to tell someone who's depressed to just be happy, or with anxiety to just not worry or with OCD to just not think. But I hope that people don't give up at least some hope, that things can change for the better.
Don't worry, I won't be knocking on your door anytime soon What I mean is:
Being a more loving husband, father, son, relative, friend. Being more tolerant of views. Getting great joy out of activities and enjoying those activities with others. Being considerate of others, including strangers.
All fine attributes, which don't need a mythical god involved.
All fine attributes, which don't need a mythical god involved.
I won't argue with that. I'm working on finding serenity on earth through people not God. But having said that some of my closest friends are quite religious, so I guess their God is indirectly involved
Primitive, anonymous men who wrote pamphlets a couple of thousand years or so ago, which were later collated by the Emperor du jour to please his Mom and translated and edited by hundreds of anonymous scribes since, are the ones who "said" it.
And intelligent, educated people - including most Christians - understand the difference.
I don't want to downplay mental health or come across as insincere. I had a really tough 6 month stint myself and have loved ones who have battled mental health problems for most of their lives.
For myself, I don't feel like tossing in the towel and just leaving it up to brain chemistry or psychology that I don't understand. I want to put work into it to be more present, friendly, loving (unobtrusively ), have deep meaningful relationships, be surrounded by others who have a love for life, have a network of people I can go to when times get tough, have euphoric adrenaline producing memorable experiences. It does take work and some vulnerability, but so far I've found it to be well worth it.
I realize you are not a theist so I have no desire to change that. But in reality, all that effort you describe can be subsumed under the generic advice to love God and each other every day (as long as you do not think God is some judge condemning you for anything).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
Ditto.
I can only relate my own experience, not others, obviously. I suffered with moderate to severe depression for decades, and was suicidal on many occasions. But learning how to take control of my thought life was a very healing thing. It started with stumbling across a very simple list, similar to this: "Stinkin' Thinkin". I recognized many of those thought patterns in myself, but they were SO ingrained that I was overwhelmed. But even just having the hope that it wasn't some fundamentally unchangeable flaw within me, and that I might have some control was HUGE for me. The bible verse, "Be transformed by the renewing of your mind," finally seemed like a possibility to me.
I made a little step forward here and there, and then I came across a book called, "The Worry Free Life". It wasn't perhaps the most well-written book, but at the time I read it, it was a life-line.
It's been a journey since then of finding many other tools and resources that help me continue on this path of emotional/mental/spiritual healing and I am a much more peaceful and happy person than I ever thought possible. The main thing, in my experience, has been learning that what I focus on has a profound impact on how I experience life.
Excellent advice and wonderful witness, Pleroo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumbo10
Don't worry, I won't be knocking on your door anytime soon What I mean is:
Being a more loving husband, father, son, relative, friend. Being more tolerant of views. Getting great joy out of activities and enjoying those activities with others. Being considerate of others, including strangers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55
All fine attributes, which don't need a mythical god involved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumbo10
I won't argue with that. I'm working on finding serenity on earth through people not God. But having said that some of my closest friends are quite religious, so I guess their God is indirectly involved
You are on the right track and whether or not you have a concept of God involved, you are living as if you do, IMO. So you are not significantly different from your closest friends.
Very cool! Thanks for sharing and I'm very happy for you. I may explore the book and get it for a loved one or two who struggle with anxiety. I realize mental health is extremely complex and maybe it won't resonate with them or help, but it's worth a try.
You never know what will strike a chord with someone. In my experience, depression/anxiety seem to have a core issue in common: a lack of self-love, or a deep sense of shame (not about things that one has done, but about who one is -- in other words, they've been taught to hate themselves by others or experience or religion or whatever).
I came across a quote that really struck a chord with me and perhaps it might be helpful to others:
Teaching you to like yourself is harder than teaching you to like almost anything else...So what you want to do is just feel around until you can just love that and love that and love that... because connection with Source is about you focusing on things that don't block the flow of love. You don't have to focus it on you. In other words, you don't need to be loved, you just want to love.
So then, some day you'll sit here and say, "... I never really liked myself very much, but it didn't matter because there were so many other things I did like I could focus on. And then, one day, I practiced liking that and that and that and that and that so much, that suddenly I looked at myself and thought, 'Hmmm... not bad.'" ~ Abraham Hicks
Good points and I actually thought about this prior. I'm glad I've posted and I've learned a lot on here in a few short days. But I'll probably leave because it takes up a lot of time and there's too much intolerance and negativity for my taste.
That's ok, you don't have to be a missionary. Just starting this thread is a good thing.
Very cool! Thanks for sharing and I'm very happy for you. I may explore the book and get it for a loved one or two who struggle with anxiety. I realize mental health is extremely complex and maybe it won't resonate with them or help, but it's worth a try.
Yes, "enlightenment" is, I think, often incremental. Any "enlightenment" I have has come that way, sometimes just a small epiphany that opens a little light.
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What I mean is:
Peace
