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Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Just be nice. That's all I'd like. I'm happy to dialogue with anyone. I find it sad when all people do though is mock and insult. That seems to be too common here.
Yes, but we find it sad when Christians try to pull the wool over our eyes with fake explanations that everybody knows are fake except the Christians, it seems.
Now I just made a bold claim that the fate of the 11 apostles outside of Peter are unknown to history. That's a fact! You cannot change that! Historians have turned records upside down and haven't found a single clue to their demise! That's also a fact.
So it's impossible to prove that the 11 apostles died for their faith. That's a fact!
Yet it persists that they did. Why? Because pastors have drummed this into their congregations and Christians are too lazy to research it for themselves. If they weren't they'd find out what I'm telling you right now is fact.
Yet you persist in refusing to believe what I have clearly shown to be historic fact.
That's what is sad, Fundie.
Last edited by thrillobyte; 08-08-2017 at 02:08 PM..
Yes, but we find it sad when Christians try to pull the wool over our eyes with fake explanations that everybody knows are fake except the Christians, it seems.
Now I just made a bold claim that the fate of the 11 apostles outside of Peter are unknown to history. That's a fact! You cannot change that! Historians have turned records upside down and haven't found a single clue to their demise! That's also a fact.
So it's impossible to prove that the 11 apostles died for their faith. That's a fact!
Yet it persists that they did. Why? Because pastors have drummed this into their congregations and Christians are too lazy to research it for themselves. If they weren't they'd find out what I'm telling you right now.
Yet you persist in refusing to believe what i have clearly shown to be historic fact.
That's what is sad, Fundie.
You have routinely refused to believe any source I have regarding 1st century life. That includes the Bible. Why in the world would I believe you'd believe a word of any source I came up with?
Do a little googling. It's not hard to find documentation. The early church has a rich historical account of what happened. While they are not inspired, there are accounts of what happened to the apostles.
Hence, lies the danger of reading the Bible with spiritually blind eyes and even worse, taking a single verse out of context. From a purely non-spiritual perspective, your interpretation doesn't even work logically.
"Ok God, I pray that You will kill everyone on this planet. NOW! Hey you say anything, right??"
"Ok God, now go destroy yourself!"
Now, God wouldn't give man authority over Him with a single statement.
The verse is talking about bearing spiritual fruit. And a product of spiritual fruit would be praying for things that align with the spirit of Christ. God's greatest desire is to love us, and in return we love Him and love and help each other. But a prideful self centered selfish nature is rotten fruit.
BTW, the Bible does have a verse just for you. Here's what God says about atheists:
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18
So in a way, your thread is only proving the Bible as true.
Okay, Jeff. Please explain to me how this prayer is non-spiritual:
Quote:
Father, I come before you in the name of Jesus to humbly ask that you would cure my little 5 year old of this horrible leukemia. I know that you are the great physician and that in the power of the name of Jesus you can cure my little child. I humbly beg that you cure her and I praise you and thank you for doing it. I claim victory over this cancer in Jesus' name, Amen!
Now millions of good God-fearing Christian parents with good hearts just prayed that exact prayer last year and millions of their children still died of their cancer.
Now please explain to us just exactly why their sincere prayers were not answered. Can you do that, Jeff with no hedging and excuse-making? There's no mocking or insulting in this post, just a simple question. Please go ahead.
I'm saying that he knew what a virgin was, and he had the discussion with her to establish it.
Again...more silly, unsubstantiated statements based on your opinion, as if they are fact. I'm still waiting for any sort of evidence. I mean, this thread was about the question of the Bible being a lie..and all you're doing is making one-liners with nothing to back them up.
Fundie, you make a totally unsubstantiated statement like "he had the discussion with her to establish it" which is not in the Bible, just your own belief and then you accuse someone of making unsubstantiated statements based on their own belief????????
Where does such chutzpah come from??????? Do Christians make these kinds of ridiculous assertions just to try to get a rise out of non-believers? It has to be!
Fundie, you make a totally unsubstantiated statement like "he had the discussion with her to establish it" which is not in the Bible, just your own belief and then you accuse someone of making unsubstantiated statements based on their own belief????????
Where does such chutzpah come from??????? Do Christians make these kinds of ridiculous assertions just to try to get a rise out of non-believers? It has to be!
Have you read LUke 1? He said he wrote according to eyewitnesses, and what he had followed. You do have a point--I will concede that he does not claim to have had a sit-down with Mary. I am confident, though, that he knew what a virgin was, and he was quite convinced that she was one. Perhaps he heard it direct from her, perhaps from another close source.
Jesus says he's coming in such a way that everyone shall see him VISIBLY. "Visibly" means people's physical eyes will see him "physically".
Besides, Jesus didn't say he's coming "in" the clouds, he said he's coming "with" clouds. What does that mean? He's coming with every person on earth?????
Please stop trying to wiggle out of this, Rbbi though I DID promise the audience a good tap-dance and I have to say you DID deliver on that promise!
Nice try; even despising the Greek as I do, yet still the word there still carries a meaning of, IN OR AMONG. And if you follow the clues and sound reasoning, it also has men in there being described as clouds WITHOUT WATER (WITHOUT HIS SPIIRIT), and the men of the Galilee were told by the angels that the SAME JESUS they saw, would return in like manner. How did He (the SPIRIT SEED) come the first time? IN THE FLESH/DUST OF MAN. How will He return again? The SAME WAY.
No tap dance required, just removing the blinders to follow the SPIRIT wheresoever He goest. Peace
Okay, Jeff. Please explain to me how this prayer is non-spiritual:
Now millions of good God-fearing Christian parents with good hearts just prayed that exact prayer last year and millions of their children still died of their cancer.
Now please explain to us just exactly why their sincere prayers were not answered. Can you do that, Jeff with no hedging and excuse-making? There's no mocking or insulting in this post, just a simple question. Please go ahead.
I think G-d said it best: "MY people perish for lack of knowledge." Peace
Fundie, you make a totally unsubstantiated statement like "he had the discussion with her to establish it" which is not in the Bible, just your own belief and then you accuse someone of making unsubstantiated statements based on their own belief????????
Where does such chutzpah come from??????? Do Christians make these kinds of ridiculous assertions just to try to get a rise out of non-believers? It has to be!
Why you think anyone of that day and time WOULDN'T know whether someone was a virgin or not, only shows your ignorance of the time and the culture involved. Peace
As I've said time and time again and I will keep saying, this behavior is immature and serves to achieve no goal besides to attempt to irritate and offend religious folks.
You aren't proving anything to anyone. Your post that was obviously intended to be offensive will not convince anyone to change their mind. If you seriously wanted to have a discussion where someone came out on the other side with new knowledge, you would find an approach that would encourage that type of conversation. With the title of your thread, where you chose to post it, and the amount of disrespect you showed towards believers and the families of believers it is baltantly clear you are not here to do anything productive, or prove anything to anyone.
I don't like responding to junk threads like this, but I feel that I have to because I want people to know that you don't represent atheism.
Look, Sky, I'm used to getting bluster back when I ask a straight question like, "How do you know all the apostles died martyrdom for their faith", I always get back from Christians
Quote:
I've said time and time again and I will keep saying, this behavior is immature and serves to achieve no goal besides to attempt to irritate and offend religious folks.
You aren't proving anything to anyone. Your post that was obviously intended to be offensive will not convince anyone to change their mind. If you seriously wanted to have a discussion where someone came out on the other side with new knowledge, you would find an approach that would encourage that type of conversation. With the title of your thread, where you chose to post it, and the amount of disrespect you showed towards believers and the families of believers it is baltantly clear you are not here to do anything productive, or prove anything to anyone.
I don't like responding to junk threads like this, but I feel that I have to because I want people to know that you don't represent atheism.
When I ask, "If Jesus promised to answer his people's prayers then why do they pray and their children die anyway?" I always get back from Christians
Quote:
I've said time and time again and I will keep saying, this behavior is immature and serves to achieve no goal besides to attempt to irritate and offend religious folks.
You aren't proving anything to anyone. Your post that was obviously intended to be offensive will not convince anyone to change their mind. If you seriously wanted to have a discussion where someone came out on the other side with new knowledge, you would find an approach that would encourage that type of conversation. With the title of your thread, where you chose to post it, and the amount of disrespect you showed towards believers and the families of believers it is baltantly clear you are not here to do anything productive, or prove anything to anyone.
I don't like responding to junk threads like this, but I feel that I have to because I want people to know that you don't represent atheism.
If I ask, "Why does God promise not to tempt us above what we are able to bear while millions of Christians commit suicide because they cannot bear the test He inflicts on them" I always get back from Christians
Quote:
I've said time and time again and I will keep saying, this behavior is immature and serves to achieve no goal besides to attempt to irritate and offend religious folks.
You aren't proving anything to anyone. Your post that was obviously intended to be offensive will not convince anyone to change their mind. If you seriously wanted to have a discussion where someone came out on the other side with new knowledge, you would find an approach that would encourage that type of conversation. With the title of your thread, where you chose to post it, and the amount of disrespect you showed towards believers and the families of believers it is baltantly clear you are not here to do anything productive, or prove anything to anyone.
I don't like responding to junk threads like this, but I feel that I have to because I want people to know that you don't represent atheism.
I've learned that I'll never get a straight, honest answer back from Christians when they are asked the tough questions. But I keep asking them, hoping against hope someone will finally give me a straight, honest answer.
I've said here numerous times as well "The last refuge of a Christian scoundrel when asked a straight question is completely dodging the question and giving blatant bluster instead" just like you just did.
Okay, Jeff. Please explain to me how this prayer is non-spiritual:
Now millions of good God-fearing Christian parents with good hearts just prayed that exact prayer last year and millions of their children still died of their cancer.
Now please explain to us just exactly why their sincere prayers were not answered. Can you do that, Jeff with no hedging and excuse-making? There's no mocking or insulting in this post, just a simple question. Please go ahead.
The answer to that question is both simple and complex. It has to do with the fact that we are not all machine parts, identical cogs in a wheel. We are individuals. No one else on this planet has ever been or will exactly like you. We all have different appearances, personalities, talents, abilities and gifts. We also existed in a realm that has been cursed with sin and until we can leave this realm, there will always be trouble and problems. That's the one constant I've come to learn. Everyone struggles with something. They may be blessed with good health, but have other problems. A child may have cancer. It's not fair, but a sin cursed world is not fair.
I know God does answer those prayers. I've seen with my own eyes. I've seen my friend go from having stage 4 thyroid cancer diagnosis to completely healed days later. And still very healthy 15 years later. Now why doesn't God do that for all those suffering? Our individuality is part of the reason. Only God knows our future path and it's possible that a healing event could set forth a change of events down the road that leads to a person's destruction. Ending physical suffering from a spiritual perspective is only delaying the eventual death of the human body. Jesus also promised that we would have trouble in this life.
"I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world." John 16:33
In the world to come, there will be no more cancer. No more suffering. And 100 years of living on this rock is a blink of an eye compared to eternity.
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