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Brilliant! You have done it again; mixed names of religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) with their adherents (Jews, Christians and Muslims).
In hell, it won't be Judaism, Christianity or Islam but those who call themselves Jews, Christians and Muslims with the weight of their bad deeds being heavy.
That is indeed what I have done. And I have a cleat idea in mind when I do it and probably most others do, even if they may think the labels are more defining than what they are attached to.
You are welcome to mean whatever you want, and beyond trying to comprehend what you mean and deciding that it is quite unimportant as it will not ( I would bet) be the views of your fellow muslims, I am discussion more out of consideration for you than for anything important coming out of it.
What I suspect and what has been supported by a few talks by Imams Quranic spokebods and various hajji -hatted tongue --flappers online is that Judaism and Christianity worship the same god as the Muslims but they do it wrong, believe the wrong things and do not follow the Quran and thus they will go to hell, and never mind good deeds, and the Jewish professor has it perfectly right - the apologetic that Islam casts a net over the other two Abrahamic religion is in hopes to haul them in.
If you disagree with that kudos, and I wouldn't go explaining it down at the local Mosque, but that view is really irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz
And your remark that Abraham, Moses and Jesus were all Muslims in the sense that submitted to the (Abrahamic) god is exactly the point made in the OP.
They are all Abrahamic religions. They are all same god. They are all, in their core, same set of beliefs.
They are all the same teaching.
What happened, a wail was created between that teaching and its adherents. That wall is rituals. Wall of rituals called religion. And that is where differences arose and built up.
Also, when I read Q'ran, I noticed a lot of hatred towards Jews. I think, it is old feud going back from offended Ischmael times. Sort of carried through centuries.
Exactly. That probably explains it better than I did.
And your remark that Abraham, Moses and Jesus were all Muslims in the sense that submitted to the (Abrahamic) god is exactly the point made in the OP.
They are all Abrahamic religions. They are all same god. They are all, in their core, same set of beliefs.
They are all the same teaching.
What happened, a wail was created between that teaching and its adherents. That wall is rituals. Wall of rituals called religion. And that is where differences arose and built up. Also, when I read Q'ran, I noticed a lot of hatred towards Jews. I think, it is old feud going back from offended Ischmael times. Sort of carried through centuries.
I have a theory......that it is akin to my other theory.. ..of politics - that Fascism and marxism are not opposite ends of a political line with Liburls in the middle, but are together at the top of a circle with Liburls at the bottom. and in fact (as we saw in China, Burma and Vietnam), the Ruling party only had to swap cap badges.
Religions being joined at the hip only ensures they spend more time fighting each other than teaming up and going for the ones that are unrelated to them.
P.s probably irrelevant..but I recall a propaganda painting commissioned by Wilhelm the II - pre war, when he was still trying to unite Europe (and russia) behind him, of himself pointing to the symbols of Marianne and britannia and the ladt of Zaragoza for all I know, and pointing to a threatening Buiddhe looming over the eastern horizon ..a terrible threat to Western civilization. As I recall Brittannia was staring ar the ground looking quite embarrassed, while Marianne was looking at the Symbol of Germany as if to say "saying "Is he putting us on, or has he just gone barmy?"
I might look for it and find that's mostly imperfect recollection on my part but the Forum doesn't seem to be uploading piccies anyway...
What I suspect and what has been supported by a few talks by Imams Quranic spokebods and various hajji -hatted tongue --flappers online is that Judaism and Christianity worship the same god as the Muslims but they do it wrong, believe the wrong things and do not follow the Quran and thus they will go to hell, and never mind good deeds, and the Jewish professor has it perfectly right - the apologetic that Islam casts a net over the other two Abrahamic religion is in hopes to haul them in.
So "the talks by Imams Quranic spokebods and various hajji -hatted tongue --flappers online is that Judaism and Christianity worship the same god as the Muslims but they do it wrong, believe the wrong things and do not follow the Quran and thus they will go to hell" is to haul them in, and when I say that as long as they observe the Torah they won't go to hell is also trying to haul them in.
Funny how no Muslim is trying to do anything else than "trying to haul them in".
Is there anything I can do to show that I don't want to haul them in?
And your remark that Abraham, Moses and Jesus were all Muslims in the sense that submitted to the (Abrahamic) god is exactly the point made in the OP.
They are all Abrahamic religions. They are all same god. They are all, in their core, same set of beliefs.
They are all the same teaching.
And that teaching has to be understood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz
What happened, a wail was created between that teaching and its adherents. That wall is rituals. Wall of rituals called religion.
Rituals are not religion but living according to the teaching is the religion. Rituals are acts of devotion. It is recognized in the Qur'an that different nations have been given acts of devotion and each act leads to the same teaching; submitting to God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz
And that is where differences arose and built up.
No. The differences arose through envy and pride (mine is better than yours).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz
Also, when I read Q'ran, I noticed a lot of hatred towards Jews. I think, it is old feud going back from offended Ischmael times. Sort of carried through centuries.
Nothing to do with offended Ishmael as "offended Ishmael" isn't even mentioned in the Qur'an. Offended Sarah is definitely mentioned in the Torah.
As for "hatred towards Jews", it isn't in the Qur'an towards Jews but the other way round from specific Jews (in Madina 1435 years ago). When Muslims got to Jerusalem, they brought the Jews back into the city. They wouldn't have done so if they had hated Jews. The current wave of hate between the two groups is political rather than religious.
:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
And your remark that Abraham, Moses and Jesus were all Muslims in the sense that submitted to the (Abrahamic) god is exactly the point made in the OP.
They are all Abrahamic religions. They are all same god. They are all, in their core, same set of beliefs.
They are all the same teaching.
What happened, a wail was created between that teaching and its adherents. That wall is rituals. Wall of rituals called religion. And that is where differences arose and built up.
Also, when I read Q'ran, I noticed a lot of hatred towards Jews. I think, it is old feud going back from offended Ischmael times. Sort of carried through centuries.
Quote:
:
Originally Posted by Khalif Exactly. That probably explains it better than I did.
That perhaps explains it better than I did, too. We all know the Abrahamic religions are related, and rituals is a better term to express what separates them. Irreconcilably.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif
So "the talks by Imams Quranic spokebods and various hajji -hatted tongue --flappers online is that Judaism and Christianity worship the same god as the Muslims but they do it wrong, believe the wrong things and do not follow the Quran and thus they will go to hell" is to haul them in, and when I say that as long as they observe the Torah they won't go to hell is also trying to haul them in.
Funny how no Muslim is trying to do anything else than "trying to haul them in".
Is there anything I can do to show that I don't want to haul them in?
You can't do any more than you have done to show that, but what you haven't shown is that the rest of the Muslim world feels the same way that you do - which was the point of the OP. And if they don't agree with your views, then you apparently say that they all interpret the Quran wrongly, and apparently have all done so since it was written.
That's asking us to believe a lot. Of course, if you can sell your interpretation to the rest of the muslim world and put an end to the ceaseless stream of 'Christian/Atheist becomes Muslim' videos, you can sell it to me.
P.s While having a quick check to see that there were more 'atheist converts to Islam' videos than fatuosities in a Trump speech, I cam across a 'deconstruct'. It is sad to hear how these people get sucked in and talked around, and it's not stupidity, far less good reasons to convert, but it's a matter of not being aware. Not being aware of the counters to the conversion -arguments.
The purpose of our posting is to allow people to hear the debates and learn the arguments and counters to the evangelical packages.
Hi Tzaph. But of course our Pal Khaliph here disagrees with that as Islam is any submission to the Abrahamic god and is effectively all the same religion and (as I teased out of him eventually (1) provided they observe their Abrahamic religion correctly, they need have nothing to fear on the "Day" (of judgement). However, as citoyen (al Aremingly) said, this (even if Khaliph Interpretes it differently) is not how the rest of the muslim world sees it.
(1) trying to pin Kaliph down to a clear answer is like eel -pinning with darts.
...The differences arose through envy and pride (mine is better than yours)...
like this:
Mhamed says:
Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller
..."he who amongst the community of Jews or Christianshearsabout me, but does not affirm his belief in that with which I have been sent and dies in this state (of disbelief), he shall be but one of the denizens of Hell-Fire".
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 10-22-2017 at 10:20 AM..
Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Another trinity. All different but the same belief in One God.
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..that it is akin to my other theory..
..of politics - that Fascism and marxism are not opposite ends of a political line with Liburls in the middle, but are together at the top of a circle with Liburls at the bottom. and in fact (as we saw in China, Burma and Vietnam), the Ruling party only had to swap cap badges. 
