Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 09-08-2017, 08:52 AM
 
6,324 posts, read 4,307,929 times
Reputation: 4333

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Nice to see you, Shirina.

Yes - the overlooking of the common good side of humanity as a yardstick and instead the harping on belief, conformity and the abrogation of individual dissent as the greatest good is what I dislike about religion, and while I dislike it particularly in Christianity I detest it (I will not conceal it) in the form of the Muslim religion.

At it's best in Medieval Baghdad, it was the intellectual centre of the world. It is the teacher of the west. And then it was all swept away in a wave of Fundamentalism and that is threatened with being swept away in a wave of fanaticism.

I would love to hear from the supposed Other wave of undercurrent humanists, irreligious muslims and even Atheists -from -Islam. so far we are only getting input from the Not -listening reciters of Quran text.
I have frequently pointed to the Middle East to illustrate the dire warnings of any culture giving in to religious fundamentalism and irrational fanaticism.

Surely there are those Muslims who are aware of their early history as THE dominant culture, the most scientifically advanced, the most knowledgeable about everything from medicine to mathematics; those Muslims must wake up every day to see their burned-out cities, bodies in the street, the never-ending sound of assault rifles and car bombs echoing in the alleyways -- and wonder, "What the hell happened to us?"

Islam could have become the greatest civilization in the world surpassing even the West ... IF they hadn't fallen victim to their own religion.

America runs the risk of ending up just like Islam if we allow the fundamentalists and fanatics take control in the government -- and each election cycle, the true nut jobs keep getting closer and closer to real power.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-08-2017, 10:38 AM
 
2,742 posts, read 2,643,601 times
Reputation: 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
more like "see, we told ya so."
you are correct
(Allah) will say: "Like this: Our Ayat (proofs, evidence, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) came unto you, but you disregarded them (i.e. you left them, did not think deeply in them, and you turned away from them), and so this Day, you will be neglected (in the Hell-fire, away from Allah's Mercy)."
The Holy Quran Sura #20 verse 126
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2017, 10:56 AM
 
2,742 posts, read 2,643,601 times
Reputation: 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Which day is that, old son? I'll note it on the calendar..
that is the day of judgment and the date is unknown and it will come suddenly but there are many signs for it will take place before
it comes
.
Quote:
And if I turn out to be wrong, well, then I'll put up my hands abnd explain how I came to my conclusions. I'm sure that the compassionate and merciful god you worship wiil unerstand that I had to use the brain he gave me rather than deny evidence and rely on faith.
no excuse will be accepted for those who got the message
It will be said in the Hereafter) O you who disbelieve (in the Oneness of Allah - Islamic Monotheism)! Make no excuses this Day! You are being requited only for what you used to do. The Holy Quran

****************
So on that Day no excuse of theirs will avail those who did wrong (by associating partners in worship with Allah, and by denying the Day of Resurrection), nor will they be allowed (then) to return to seek Allah's Pleasure (by having Islamic Faith with righteous deeds and by giving up polytheism, sins and crimes with repentance). The Holy Quran

****************
Whoever goes right, then he goes right only for the benefit of his ownself. And whoever goes astray, then he goes astray to his own loss. No one laden with burdens can bear another's burden. And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning). The Holy Quran
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2017, 11:17 AM
 
2,742 posts, read 2,643,601 times
Reputation: 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
I'm assuming the Qu'ran does not mention evolution or nuclear reactions fueling the sun and the stars?
The Quran say
“Allah has created every moving (living) creature from water†The Holy Quran
**************
“And We have made from water every living thing†The Holy Quran
The Evolution theory is false let alone it is only a theory and not fact
Empirical science has proven the falseness of this theory, on the basis of definitive evidence, and that it is not a scientific theory at all.
Darwin’s theory may now be shelved, after the discovery of Mendel’s laws of genetics and the discovery of genes which are the secret code of creation, and the discovery that chromosomes carry the complete physical attributes of humans and preserve the similarity in attributes of a particular species.

in his theory Darwin could not answer some questions but he found exit for that and said
No one should expect to find a specific answer to this question, especially since we know that we are unable to answer a question that is less complex than this.
what an answer
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2017, 11:20 AM
 
2,742 posts, read 2,643,601 times
Reputation: 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
LOL @ the term "wrong-doer."

I laugh because I know precisely what you're referring to with that terminology.

A "wrong-doer" does not mean murderers, rapists, pedophiles, thieves, and the like.

No, "wrong-doer" is anyone who refuses to join your cult, worship meteorites, and touch their noses to the ground five times per day in the direction of Mecca.

This is one of the big reasons why I reject all of the Abrahamic faiths -- we're supposed to believe that a good and loving god would base his entire religion on threats, coercion, extortion, and forced conformity. That is the modus operendi of a mafia boss, NOT a moral and sane god.
you are wrong
in general and in quick they are the one who do not believe in the one who created them .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2017, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,876,103 times
Reputation: 1871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
LOL @ the term "wrong-doer."

I laugh because I know precisely what you're referring to with that terminology.

A "wrong-doer" does not mean murderers, rapists, pedophiles, thieves, and the like.

No, "wrong-doer" is anyone who refuses to join your cult, worship meteorites, and touch their noses to the ground five times per day in the direction of Mecca.

This is one of the big reasons why I reject all of the Abrahamic faiths -- we're supposed to believe that a good and loving god would base his entire religion on threats, coercion, extortion, and forced conformity. That is the modus operendi of a mafia boss, NOT a moral and sane god.
One quibble: use the word "religion" instead of "faith." Faith describes the basis for believing a message or cosmology while "religion" describes the set of doctrines and practices built up in association with that "faith."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2017, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,876,103 times
Reputation: 1871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
I have frequently pointed to the Middle East to illustrate the dire warnings of any culture giving in to religious fundamentalism and irrational fanaticism.

Surely there are those Muslims who are aware of their early history as THE dominant culture, the most scientifically advanced, the most knowledgeable about everything from medicine to mathematics; those Muslims must wake up every day to see their burned-out cities, bodies in the street, the never-ending sound of assault rifles and car bombs echoing in the alleyways -- and wonder, "What the hell happened to us?"

Islam could have become the greatest civilization in the world surpassing even the West ... IF they hadn't fallen victim to their own religion.

America runs the risk of ending up just like Islam if we allow the fundamentalists and fanatics take control in the government -- and each election cycle, the true nut jobs keep getting closer and closer to real power.
Well, I got to "rep" Transponder but not you. It is worth noting that the decline (or destruction) of learning in the area of Islam was more due to political than religious rationale. Bread and circus mentality does NOT appreciate the advancement of learning,...people get ideas, but it certainly had the religion crawl into bed in the politics. I don't know a lot about the Ottoman empire, but check into the policies enforced by the Janissaries.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2017, 01:53 PM
 
6,324 posts, read 4,307,929 times
Reputation: 4333
Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
you are wrong
in general and in quick they are the one who do not believe in the one who created them .
Yeah, that's what I said.

You have to believe in Allah -- and thus be a Muslim.

Period.

You can try to put that proverbial lipstick on that equally proverbial pig, but all you're doing is agreeing with me while pretending that I'm wrong.

On the contrary -- I am absolutely right.

Your wonderful and perfect god is so vain and egocentric that believing in him is more important than everything else -- including whether or not we were truly good people in this life.

Morality, in that sense, ends up meaning nothing and counting for nothing.

All that matters is belief and, by default, loads of worship, bowing, scraping, praising, kowtowing, and ego-stroking a vainglorious god that lies to us by trying to pass himself off as "good."

No good, just, fair, and righteous god would send anyone to hell for being who they are -- who they can't HELP but be.

It's like punishing a bird for acting like a bird or a dog for acting like a dog. What sense would that make? And you can't change that anyhow.

We atheists can't be anything but who we are -- and some dusty old holy book from the 6th Century isn't going to change what we believe. Our minds work in a certain way and we can't change that even if we tried (and yeah, I've tried).

That's not the mark of a god -- that's the mark of a man-made religion filled with doctrines of obedience and punishments for not conforming to the clergy's sick vision of how the world ought to be.

Just keep in mind that there has never, not once in all of human history, been a civilization ruled by religion that was a) democratic (the people don't even elect the Pope), b) peaceful (all religious societies have been inherently warlike), c) free (theocracies have always been oppressive, misogynistic, xenophobic, hateful, and murderous) or d) egalitarian (wealth, income, and power disparities between the clergy and the masses have always been absolutely huge).

Now ... why is that, I wonder? If religion and these decrepit holy books were truly for humanity's benefit, why do religious societies and theocracies unilaterally make for some of the worst civilizations ever to exist? Just look how well the land of Islam is doing -- and I mean that sarcastically. As a woman, I wouldn't want to go anywhere NEAR most Muslim nations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2017, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,876,103 times
Reputation: 1871
Rhode Island
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2017, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
10,941 posts, read 5,914,844 times
Reputation: 5636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post

All that matters is belief and, by default, loads of worship, bowing, scraping, praising, kowtowing, and ego-stroking a vainglorious god that lies to us by trying to pass himself off as "good."
Perhaps we should touch on the concept of the deceiver (the devil if one wishes) .......

He who deceives us ....

He who pretends to be something else ....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:30 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top