Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
They were looking for what they were told to look for....
No, Richard, they were looking for what their carnal minds THOUGHT they were told to look for. They did NOT read the scriptures spiritually. They read them carnally thinking in them to find eternal life and they missed the scriptures that told of Jesus and refused to embrace Him, as Jesus told them.
John 5:38-40 King James Version (KJV)
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
No, Richard, they were looking for what their carnal minds THOUGHT they were told to look for. They did NOT read the scriptures spiritually. They read them carnally thinking in them to find eternal life and they missed the scriptures that told of Jesus and refused to embrace Him, as Jesus told them.
John 5:38-40 King James Version (KJV)
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Historically, Orthodox Judaism has had three different interpretations of this passage, the passage refers to Moses, Mashiach (Messiah) or the nation of Israel.
The modern day Jewish interpretation of Isaiah 53 as applying to the nation took root during the Middle Ages as a response to pressure, sometimes by persuasion and unfortunately at times by force, exerted by the surrounding Christian societies.
Historically, Orthodox Judaism has had three different interpretations of this passage, the passage refers to Moses, Mashiach (Messiah) or the nation of Israel.
The modern day Jewish interpretation of Isaiah 53 as applying to the nation took root during the Middle Ages as a response to pressure, sometimes by persuasion and unfortunately at times by force, exerted by the surrounding Christian societies.
I think that that is a bit of a mispresentation of the historical positions
Historically, Orthodox Judaism has had three different interpretations of this passage, the passage refers to Moses, Mashiach (Messiah) or the nation of Israel.
The modern day Jewish interpretation of Isaiah 53 as applying to the nation took root during the Middle Ages as a response to pressure, sometimes by persuasion and unfortunately at times by force, exerted by the surrounding Christian societies.
Jews do not believe that Jesus was the mashiach. Assuming that he existed, and assuming that the Christian scriptures are accurate in describing him (both matters that are debatable), he simply did not fulfill the mission of the mashiach as it is described in the biblical passages cited above. Jesus did not do any of the things that the scriptures said the messiah would do.
On the contrary, another Jew born about a century later came far closer to fulfilling the messianic ideal than Jesus did. His name was Shimeon ben Kosiba, known as Bar Kokhba (son of a star), and he was a charismatic, brilliant, but brutal warlord. Rabbi Akiba, one of the greatest scholars in Jewish history, believed that Bar Kokhba was the mashiach. Bar Kokhba fought a war against the Roman Empire, catching the Tenth Legion by surprise and retaking Jerusalem. He resumed sacrifices at the site of the Temple and made plans to rebuild the Temple. He established a provisional government and began to issue coins in its name. This is what the Jewish people were looking for in a mashiach; Jesus clearly does not fit into this mold. Ultimately, however, the Roman Empire crushed his revolt and killed Bar Kokhba. After his death, all acknowledged that he was not the mashiach.
Throughout Jewish history, there have been many people who have claimed to be the mashiach, or whose followers have claimed that they were the mashiach: Shimeon Bar Kokhba, Shabbatai Tzvi, Jesus, and many others too numerous to name. Leo Rosten reports some very entertaining accounts under the entry for meshiekh in The New Joys of Yiddish. But all of these people died without fulfilling the mission of the mashiach; therefore, none of them were the mashiach. The mashiach and the Olam Ha-Ba lie in the future, not in the past. - www.jewfaq.org/m/mashiach.htm
Why has has Christianity redefined a Jewish concept?...
100 years later would be too late, Messiah had to come around in 6 A.D. because Judah had dropped the scepter and was no longer able to kill for transgressions of their own laws. Messiah was supposed to come 4 days after Adam, 4000 years, and the years of Messiah are 2000 years according to Jewish sources, and so we are just coming to the end of that era.
Jesus came and built the temple of Ezekiel, and he also came making Gentiles servants to Israel, and that was the first thing that Jesus had on his agenda, to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord where the whole world would then believe in the God of Israel, but why was it So important that the whole earth believe?
When Israel made that Golden calf, it literally changed everything for Israel, God came to Israel alone but when Israel committed adultery, God said,'' Now the whole Earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord.''
Messiah comes doing just that, when Messiah comes, he comes finding the lost tents of Joseph in order to gather them to Jews that the two might be one, and the covenant is for Ephraim and Judah alone, and nobody else.
Ephraim had been lost for 700 years before Jesus came, and in order for ANYONE to come as Messiah, FIRST AND FOREMOST, HE HAS TO HAVE JUDAH AND EPHRAIM STANDING THERE AND WILLING TO ACCEPT HIM AS MESSIAH.
Messiah cannot bring a new covenant for Ephraim and Judah until Messiah effectively finds Ephraim. The ten tribes of Ephraim were seeded into all the nations of the world because this was always the plan ever since Israel built that golden calf, now the whole world must come to the God of Israel.
Jesus did as any Jew could have done, he stood as a banner for Gentiles to come to the God of Israel to become one with Jews, and Messiah has to fill the void in Ephraim before he can take Ephraim and Judah to bind them together as one stick.
WILL ANY JEW STAND UP AS A BANNER TO GENTILES IN ORDER TO FILL THE RANKS OF EPHRAIM BY CONVERTING GENTILES TO THE LOVE OF TORAH?
No, not really.
For a brief time in history, we see a Jew doing what a Jew should have been doing but no Jew was doing it, and this was to find and fill the ranks of the ten lost tribes through the conversion of millions of Gentiles to come and be one with Jews.
Let us say that Jesus never even lived, that Jesus is not the Messiah, then what must we be looking for in a Messiah to come?
FIRST AND FOREMOST, MESSIAH MUST FILL THE VOID IN EPHRAIM THAT THE NUMBERS OF JOSEPH ARE MUCH GREATER THAN THE NUMBER OF JUDAH.
The prophets always speak of the millions of Ephraim as the sands of the seas, that when the great multitudes of Joseph are found, it is literally hundreds of millions of Gentiles who have converted to Judaism and are now ready to become one people with Judah, that Messiah brings a new covenant for Ephraim and Judah, and it is to this Messiah that the millions of Gentiles look to.
Let's pretend that nobody ever heard of Jesus, WHAT MUST WE EXPECT OF A MESSIAH?
A Jewish Messiah is about to come bringing a new covenant for Ephraim and Judah, what is the first thing that MUST take place, and how will Messiah achieve it?
FIRST
FIRST
MESSIAH MUST come seeking the lost sheep of the house of Israel, before Messiah can give a new covenant to Ephraim and Judah, Ephraim's numbers MUST BE AS THE SANDS OF THE SEAS, WHERE ARE ALL THESE GENTILES OF THE TENTS OF JOSEPH?
Messiah doesn't come forcing Gentiles to come and repent as the lost sheep of Ephraim must repent of their paganism and disrespect for Torah, and all the gentiles do not come converting, but so many Gentiles come converting that there are hundreds of millions of gentiles to be added to the nation and not by force, but Messiah comes in love to those gentiles and they WILLINGLY join Judah in Judaism and are then counted amongst the numbers of Israel, AND THEIR NUMBERS ARE SO GREAT ABOVE JUDAH THAT EACH JEW LIVING WILL STAND FOR A THOUSAND GENTILES BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT NEITHER CAN STAND ALONE.
When these hundreds of millions of Gentiles are offered a betrothal just as Israel was offered a betrothal at the mountain, they join Judah and they are as many as the sands of the seas, but what exactly does Messiah do that makes all these gentiles convert to the ways of God to become one with Jews?
He has to stand as a banner of love in order to convert them and when he does convert them, and when Judah and Ephraim DO become one stick, they conquer the whole earth together and they begin a rule with Judah in the lead.
What will the coming Jewish Messiah do that brings about the great day of Jezreel that hundreds of millions of Gentiles become the sons of the living God as Hosea says they will be?
We don't have to pretend, and although a Jew came and reached out his arm to stand as a banner for gentiles, this covenant has now been broken, and we are waiting on the second time Messiah will again reach out his arm to gather Gentiles as the sands of the seas to become one with Jews.
The entire process MUST take place again, and ONCE AGAIN, GREAT WILL BE THE DAY OF JEZREEL WHEN MESSIAH COMES AGAIN TO REACH OUT HIS ARM, TO STAND AS A BANNER THAT HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF GENTILES WILL SUDDENLY LOVE ISRAEL, AND THEY WILL LOVE THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.
Messiah will take the stick of Judah and make it one with the stick of Ephraim.
So we are waiting for a Jew to come, a very wise Jew in that he has the power to appeal to the gentile in order to gather hundreds of millions of gentile to Judaism in order to be added to the nation.
Messiah does not come to wipe all the gentiles off the face of the map, Messiah's goal is to come and fill the void in Ephraim so that the numbers of Ephraim are so much greater than Judah that they are as the sands of the seas, and each Jew has thousands of Gentiles represented on each of his 4 tassels. The lamb had to redeem the first born by standing in his stead, and then the priests became Passover lambs who actually stood in the stead of each first born son, and then it expanded again as the whole nation of Israel stands as Passover lambs to redeem first born sons/Gentiles.
What would a Messiah have to do that convinced so many millions of Gentiles to come converting to Judaism to join Judah?
It isn't out of fear.
Before the conquering Messiah can come and judge all the nations in how they treated Israel, FIRST AND FOREMOST, Messiah comes finding the lost tents of Joseph, and when Joseph is found, Judah is given great strength and TOGETHER, they spoil the nations.
Messiah doesn't come in the beginning as a conqueror, he comes finding the lost sheep of the house of Israel in love, IN BETROTHAL as a Jew who offers a spiritual betrothal to a Gentiles, and EVERY JEW should stand as a person who is WILLING to stand in the stead of a first born son, and who will stand for all these Gentiles who are found and added to Judah IF NO JEW WILL OFFER?
I don't think people can grasp just what a Jew named Jesus has accomplished, this one Jew has accomplished making the word of God the most greatest word in the world. Even though the billions of Christians have now rejected the covenant of Jesus and refused to become Ephraim, THEY ALL KNOW THE BIBLE, EVEN THE ATHEISTS KNOW THE BIBLE, AND IT IS THE FOUNDATION OF THE 3 MAJOR RELIGIONS.
I don't think we can grasp just how big a thing that is because we were born in this era, but to go back in time to tell somebody that the future would be this way, they wouldn't believe it.
But God knew it all the time when he said,'' Now the whole world will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord,'' and this has become a fulfilled prophesy, but not without a Jew standing as a bridegroom who offers himself and his name to Gentiles all over the world.
If Messiah is coming, then this MUST MEAN that the GREAT DAY OF JEZREEL IS AT HAND.
THIS MUST MEAN THAT MESSIAH IS COMING TO STAND AS A BANNER TO ALL GENTILES IN LOVE, NOT WAR.
IT MEANS THAT MESSIAH IS COMING TO FILL THE RANKS OF EPHRAIM FIRST.
"The misconception that Jesus did not fulfill the Messianic prophecies of the Old Testament is predominately held by Jewish People. The argument stems from several key Scriptures: Isaiah 11:1-9, Isaiah 2:3-4, and Micah 4:2-3
In Isaiah 11:1-9, we see prophecies about the coming Messiah, some of which were fulfilled in Yeshua, but some have not been fulfilled yet. . We don’t yet see wolves lying down with lambs, nursing children playing at the cobra’s hole, or the earth full of the knowledge of the LORD. The verses in Micah are also clear prophecies about the coming Messiah, and they tell of a universal peace that has not yet manifested. The argument then is: if Jesus was the Messiah, why isn’t there world peace? Many Jewish People who are still waiting expectantly for the Messiah are expecting a Messiah who will bring world peace.
Yet there are many Messianic prophecies that paint a different picture of the Messiah. Isaiah 53 speaks of the Messiah coming as a suffering servant, One who is led as lamb to the slaughter and who takes our sorrows, infirmities, and punishment on Himself. This suffering Messiah is prophesied to be pierced for our transgression. This is a clear depiction of Yeshua’s crucifixion.
Get the "A Rabbi Looks at Jesus of Nazareth" Book
With warmth and transparency, Jewish Voice’s own Messianic Rabbi Jonathan Bernis shares a compelling case for Jesus as Messiah and presents overwhelming evidence that can be traced to the Torah itself.
A significant Messianic prophecy that is often overlooked by those still waiting for the Messiah is Daniel 9:24-27. This Old Testament prophecy says that Messiah, the Anointed One, will be “cut off,” or killed, before the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem, which happened in 70 A.D. Clearly, Yeshua’s death fits as fulfilling this prophecy, and no Messiah yet to come could. Bible prophecy contains portraits of both a suffering Messiah and a victorious Messiah. The suffering servant is pictured as a lamb, wounded, and cut off, but not for Himself. The triumphant Messiah comes to establish His rule of peace and righteousness over the earth.
These two seemingly contradictory prophetic descriptions are difficult to understand for Jewish People. To reconcile these two very different portrayals of the Messiah, there grew a belief among the rabbis that they were waiting for two Messiahs. One they called Mashiach ben David, and He would be the Son of King David who would rule and reign. The other they called Mashiach ben Joseph, the Son of Joseph. This Messiah ben Joseph would suffer and be rejected by his own like Joseph was rejected by his brothers. At the time of Yeshua’s coming, Israel longed for the conquering Messiah. Because of Rome’s oppression and their expectation that God would send the Deliverer, they were looking for Messiah ben David.
The truth is, it is not two Messiahs, it is one Messiah coming twice—first as the Lamb of God, the suffering servant of Isaiah 53, and then as the reigning King Messiah when Yeshua returns. Yeshua’s first coming fulfilled the prophecies of the suffering servant. With Yeshua’s Second Coming, we will see the fulfillment of the victorious, reigning Messiah of Isaiah 11:1-9!"
~ some/"few" of you believe different.
For a brief moment in time, a Jew came offering a betrothal to Gentiles in order for them to be redeemed into Israel, and called,'' EPHRAIM.''
For a brief moment in history lasting 100 years, a Jew came converting Gentiles to Judaism and for 100 years Gentiles came under the covenant that Messiah brings for Judah and Ephraim alone.
But 100 years later, this covenant was broken and any Christian who thinks he is under the covenant that Messiah brought to Ephraim and Judah is making a very bold claim that he has done what a Gentile must do in order to be redeemed under the name of Israel through Ephraim, a Gentile is making a claim that he is of the ten lost tribes of Israel who become one with Jews.
The covenant Jesus brought has been broken for 2000 years and there have be NO GENTILES under the covenant of Jesus for 2000 years.
The church killed all the Gentiles who were grafted into Israel through the covenant of Jesus.
The church IS NOT EPHRAIM.
Gentiles ARE NOT IN A COVENANT WITH EPHRAIM AND JUDAH IF THEY ARE NOT EPHRAIM.
We are sitting here waiting for prophesy to happen, that God promised that he would reach out his hand TWICE to gather gentiles.
Look around you, are you in the same religion as Jews who keep all the holy days, traditions and rituals of Messiah?
Jews know Messiah because they have literally been the only people in the world who have been keeping the ways of Messiah for 2000 years while supposed Christians have persecuted and killed them FOR KEEPING THE WAYS OF MESSIAH.
We are waiting on the great day of Jezreel where millions of Gentiles will convert to the belief in a Jewish Messiah, Christianity is not the belief in a Jewish Messiah, and they certainly don't keep the ways of Messiah, they have not been added to the nation.
People need to step out of the box to see what the covenant is, and to whom it is given because it CERTAINLY isn't given to Gentiles in Christianity, it is given to Gentile converts to Judaism because of the fact that Judaism is the only religion who have been following God, and keeping the ways of Messiah alive in the face of 2000 years of the church trying desperately to DO AWAY WITH ALL THE WAYS OF MESSIAH.
For a brief moment in history, there were righteous gentile converts who gave up their lives because they wouldn't deny the Passover of Christ and because they wouldn't abandon the ways of Jesus, they were killed for keeping Jewish Holy days by Christians who wouldn't tolerate the ways of God.
For a brief moment in time, a Jew came offering a betrothal to Gentiles in order for them to be redeemed into Israel, and called,'' EPHRAIM.''
For a brief moment in history lasting 100 years, a Jew came converting Gentiles to Judaism and for 100 years Gentiles came under the covenant that Messiah brings for Judah and Ephraim alone.
But 100 years later, this covenant was broken and any Christian who thinks he is under the covenant that Messiah brought to Ephraim and Judah is making a very bold claim that he has done what a Gentile must do in order to be redeemed under the name of Israel through Ephraim, a Gentile is making a claim that he is of the ten lost tribes of Israel who become one with Jews.
The covenant Jesus brought has been broken for 2000 years and there have be NO GENTILES under the covenant of Jesus for 2000 years.
The church killed all the Gentiles who were grafted into Israel through the covenant of Jesus.
The church IS NOT EPHRAIM.
Gentiles ARE NOT IN A COVENANT WITH EPHRAIM AND JUDAH IF THEY ARE NOT EPHRAIM.
We are sitting here waiting for prophesy to happen, that God promised that he would reach out his hand TWICE to gather gentiles.
Look around you, are you in the same religion as Jews who keep all the holy days, traditions and rituals of Messiah?
Jews know Messiah because they have literally been the only people in the world who have been keeping the ways of Messiah for 2000 years while supposed Christians have persecuted and killed them FOR KEEPING THE WAYS OF MESSIAH.
We are waiting on the great day of Jezreel where millions of Gentiles will convert to the belief in a Jewish Messiah, Christianity is not the belief in a Jewish Messiah, and they certainly don't keep the ways of Messiah, they have not been added to the nation.
People need to step out of the box to see what the covenant is, and to whom it is given because it CERTAINLY isn't given to Gentiles in Christianity, it is given to Gentile converts to Judaism because of the fact that Judaism is the only religion who have been following God, and keeping the ways of Messiah alive in the face of 2000 years of the church trying desperately to DO AWAY WITH ALL THE WAYS OF MESSIAH.
For a brief moment in history, there were righteous gentile converts who gave up their lives because they wouldn't deny the Passover of Christ and because they wouldn't abandon the ways of Jesus, they were killed for keeping Jewish Holy days by Christians who wouldn't tolerate the ways of God.
Your king is going to kill and destroy- not save. Follow Jesus by Faith while its still your choice to do so. Soon your choice will be taken from you. Don't follow the coming king of this world- he's the devil.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
