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you say you do not believe in God because there is no evidence for His existence. But there is also no evidence against Him.
The onus is on the person making the claim to show evidence for it.
You are a killer, i can´t prove it but you can´t prove you didn´t either!
So should the judge assume you did it or shall he/she assume the opposite until shown otherwise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by voiceoftruth
If anything, there is more evidence FOR Him than against Him.
Except that there is not objective evidence for god.
What evidence do you think would be enough for a judge to convict someone?:
-Hearsay accounts
-Eyewitness accounts
-circumstantial evidence
-the bloody fingerprint of the defendant on the weapon used to kill the victim
Notice that quantity does not mean quality. No ammount of circumstantial evidence will get someone convicted if say the body was not found
Quote:
Originally Posted by voiceoftruth
Just because we can not see the wind does not mean it does not exsist.
In science we use all the sences including those enhanced by technology and the power of inference which is the equivalent to a tank for scientists and the same as a nuke for mathematicians
Quote:
Originally Posted by voiceoftruth
We know it exsists because we see it blowing through the trees or stirring up winds to make hurricanes.
ie you infer it does
Quote:
Originally Posted by voiceoftruth
You have a lot of faith in yourself for believing there is no God at all.
nope, faith is believing in something despite the evidence. Saying that lack of belief takes faith is the same as saying that bald is a hair colour
Quote:
Originally Posted by voiceoftruth
What if you're wrong?
No skin of my nose. I came to this conclusion without leaving reason and logic behind. If it turns out that there is a god, im sure she´ll understand my search for truth as opposed to the mental lazyness that faith is
Quote:
Originally Posted by voiceoftruth
What, then, is this life for? Do you ever feel like there is something missing in your life? Do we toil and labor for nothing?
Do you not have any other goals in your life that do not revolve around the deity of your choosing? Do i need to believe in some grand daddy up there to want to leave a mark in history? Do i need reassurance that a part of me survives physical death for me to want to raise a family?
If you really believe in what you typed then i just have to say what a puny existance you have there
Quote:
Originally Posted by voiceoftruth
If there was a God, wouldn't you think we'd be subject to His rule since He is the creator of all things, including us? Don't rule it out.
I´m assuming this is your personal deity who actually gives a doodle about what humans do and what they think. In deism god made the laws of physics which i´ll have you know, i follow them every day
Then again if i can´t rule out your god, it means you shouldn´t rule out satan as the one true god or zeus or loki or eris or whatever billions of people have come up between the dawn of man and nowadays because Y´know, its possible
There is more than enough evidence. The choice not to believe is not because there isn't evidence, it's simply because of the lack of desire to submit to this Holy God that goes against sin. People don't like Him because He tells them that they cannot partake in the evil that they partake of and live. I think Jesus said it best when he said:
"And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants." John 3:19
But self professed believers that say a magic prayer and go to church on Sunday are exempt from their sins being seen right? This is one of the big problems that i believe Atheists have with "Churchianity". HYPOCRISY...
Haven't we talked about all of the evidence already? The prophecy, the archaeological discoveries, the testamonies... there is evidence.
A book isn't evidence of itself.
And there have been many discoveries in archaeology. Artifacts that are talked about in many different religions in areas where the events of that religion allegedly happened.
And you didn't provide a rebuttal for my statement. I recall you saying that people are nonbelievers because they "live in sin" and they are just "in denial". I said you were wrong. You didn't even answer that. Why? Because you are pulling statements out of nowhere with nothing to back them up.
Last edited by Alpha8207; 04-09-2008 at 01:14 PM..
Reason: removed moderation comments
But self professed believers that say a magic prayer and go to church on Sunday are exempt from their sins being seen right? This is one of the big problems that i believe Atheists have with "Churchianity". HYPOCRISY...
godspeed,
freedom
I dont think thats the problem either. If a person teaches that everyone is equal and then we find the man being a member of the KKK, it still doesn´t make the message any less true.
The problem i believe is at the heart of empiricism vs rationalism that was a hotspot for controversy a few centuries ago. We have people who have what they believe is evidence followed by others who have problems with it. The mormon may present something like a personal account just to have the catholic reject it as delusion or coincidence. Many think that what they have is infallible but this is all subjective
However the one thing we can use is objective evidence which has a whole discipline(scientific method) just to study it. The problem is that much of these types of evidence require homogeneity and repeatability. This is clearly impossible for things like personal revelation or fantastic 1 off type of claims(ie ressurection of jesus or you walking on water).
I dont think thats the problem either. If a person teaches that everyone is equal and then we find the man being a member of the KKK, it still doesn´t make the message any less true.
The problem i believe is at the heart of empiricism vs rationalism that was a hotspot for controversy a few centuries ago. We have people who have what they believe is evidence followed by others who have problems with it. The mormon may present something like a personal account just to have the catholic reject it as delusion or coincidence. Many think that what they have is infallible but this is all subjective
However the one thing we can use is objective evidence which has a whole discipline(scientific method) just to study it. The problem is that much of these types of evidence require homogeneity and repeatability. This is clearly impossible for things like personal revelation or fantastic 1 off type of claims(ie ressurection of jesus or you walking on water).
Your right, but i think that it is only the case for those that think deeply, many don't take it that far and react to the hypocrisy of the claimant.
Therefore, i believe i can walk on water, when the time is necessary and if i have overcome sin, which brings about power.
Until then, i have to be satisfied with walking on a frozen lake....
But self professed believers that say a magic prayer and go to church on Sunday are exempt from their sins being seen right? This is one of the big problems that i believe Atheists have with "Churchianity". HYPOCRISY...
godspeed,
freedom
I agree with you. Following Jesus Christ is alot more than a magic prayer and going to church on Sunday. It is giving your life to Him, in everything, worshiping Him with all of your heart, soul, mind, and strength. It is a life. You assume I am a hypocrite because I speak truth out of the Bible, on what basis do you make these claims? Can you truthfully accuse me of being a hypocrite? Considering you have never seen the way I live you cannot.
Last edited by scooterBJK; 04-09-2008 at 12:13 PM..
And there have been many discoveries in archaeology. Artifacts that are talked about in many different religions in areas where the events of that religion allegedly happened.
And you didn't provide a rebuttal for my statement. I recall you saying that people are nonbelievers because they "live in sin" and they are just "in denial". I said you were wrong. You didn't even answer that. Why? Because you are pulling statements out of nowhere with nothing to back them up.
Happy mods?
I don't feel as if I need to "rebuttal" to that statement. Since you won't take my word for it, take God's word for it. Believing starts with faith in Lord Jesus. When one comes to realization that Jesus is God, then they will follow Him. Does that make sense? A book isn't evidence of itself...the Bible is a collection of books, so I guess that's a good thing that there are multiple testamonies. You said i'm wrong, but I got my statement In the Bible not from myself, but from my Father, and He is true.
I don't feel as if I need to "rebuttal" to that statement. Since you won't take my word for it, take God's word for it. Believing starts with faith in Lord Jesus. When one comes to realization that Jesus is God, then they will follow Him. Does that make sense? A book isn't evidence of itself...the Bible is a collection of books, so I guess that's a good thing that there are multiple testamonies. You said i'm wrong, but I got my statement In the Bible not from myself, but from my Father, and He is true.
On whose basis are you moral? Who and what defines moral for you?
What's moral depends on the situation.
You wouldn't kill someone, but if you are held at gunpoint and you are armed, I think it's logical to defend yourself. Even if it means killing your attacker.
If there was absolute morality, it would be common sense to figure out what to make legal and illegal. That is not the case.
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