Why Jews Don't Believe In Jesus (soul, God, heaven, exist)
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Oh good, I resemble that remark. I love to be in water. Do have to come to the surface for air, though.
Anyone who really knows the Temple will walk into the Holy place and the Holy of Holies KNOWING that a dolphin is standing on his fins. A Dolphin was carried in from the great sea of Solomon with 3 million gallons, and this dolphin is carried into the temple by two poles and a piece of material where that dolphin is standing upon the waters in the Holy place speaking as a mediator between God and man because of the fact that he is of water and of air.
Jesus walking upon the water, it should remind people of the Dolphin skipping across the water, and this dolphin is a sea creature which is taken from the waters, just like Jesus came to make fishers of men to catch all kinds of sea creatures and they shall cast their nets to save the souls of men.
Of WATER, AND OF AIR.
Of water, of blood, AND of spirit. The Soul IS IN THE BLOOD.
1 John 5 6This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ—not by water alone, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies to this, because the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify:8the Spirit, the water, and the blood—and these three are in agreement.
The Two witnesses.
You are the Tabernacle, and your outer covering is made of dolphin skin.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 09-24-2018 at 09:29 PM..
This smacks of Anti-Semitism, and while I don't have any Jewish blood to somehow magically qualify me in speaking on a subject, I agree with Richard, but then Me and Richard don't see eye to eye on everything, I think all Gentiles are anti-Semitic, I can just snap my fingers and see Anti-Semitism just from people being a Christian, and it will be Jews who take up for the people who I raise an eyebrow to.
But yeah, sounds like you even have an agenda.
No, merely yourselves needing to invent one for me to suit your own. Any criticism of some aspect s of Jewish history will be labeled as 'anti-Semitic' when it can't be refuted, to shut down criticism, particularly some the more blatantly racist features of the orthodox sects and Chassidics. Christians are as Jewish theologically as any other Jew, another fact tribal Jews hate to admit, since it means they aren't 'special' just because of the genealogies and DNA.
The thing about the Essenes is that - do we know that it was the Essenes that had two expected messiahs - or both posts in one, perhaps (big Hint). Is this based on Qumran texts?
OK, the writers of the Dead Sea scrolls state they expected 2 messiah.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
I have my suspicion that this was a zealot community rather essene. It is (so far as i have read) just assumed that it was Essenic because it was some kind of isolated community. For my money it could have equally well as been a Nazorean-zealot community.
The Zealots were a first century AD movement. The writers of the Dead Sea scrolls date their beginning to the second century BC.
And if they were not written by the Essenes, then that raises two questions. Who did write them, and store them in jars manufactured from clay from that immediate location, and where were the Essenes actually based?
While there are problems with this idea, there are also problems with the alternatives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
I had a check and there are only two mentions of the name One Genesis where Melchizedek is mentioned as High Priest and Psalms where someone is referred to as a High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, which sounds like elected by God rather than the people. So it would fit someone trying to get the post of High Priest who wasn't actually eligible. If God appointed him, who could say no?
True, but was there actually an order of Melchizedek? The Epistle to the Hebrews says it was in heaven.
It's factual history, and nothing anti-semitic about it. My grandparents on my father's side were Jewish, and well informed on Jewish history. The OT and NT corroborate it as well, as does post-exilic Jewish history up to the Christian era. Just because someone who is JEwish doesn't like something doesn't make it anti-semitic, and in any case your bigotry against Christians is already on display elsewhere, repeating the lie that the Holocaust was commuted by Christians, so I can't really get all excited about your sniveling considering your bigoted rubbish.
OK, the writers of the Dead Sea scrolls state they expected 2 messiah.
That idea is not in line with Torah thinking on the messiah, who would be one person. But it actually turned out that way with the Hasmoneans, where the family had kingly Ruler and High Priest - separate. So it suggests (unless one supposes that it was the Essenes being symbolic or metaphorical) that they were using the Maccabean zealot idea as an indicator of what they were anticipating. And you won't need me to tell you that the Maccabean revolt was the start of Zealotry and even the stand at Masada was not the end. And the Qumran community and the Nazoreans (whether they were a bunch of protochristian teachers, or Zealots with a secret arms cache out in the desert) were right in the middle of it, before and after the Jewish war. It explains a lot of puzzles about the gospels (either explained as 'God had a plan' or just ignore it) if one sees the Jesus movement as a Pharisaical/zealot movement, aimed at getting rid of Roman (pagan) rule. And Qumran fits a nest of Jewish zealots better than a community of Essene monks.
Quote:
The Zealots were a first century AD movement. The writers of the Dead Sea scrolls date their beginning to the second century BC.
Answered above. No, not quite. So far as i know it is accepted archaeology that the Qumran cache was stored there for safety when it was clear that the Zealots were going to lose the war against the Romans. Argument that scripture in their library was not only 2nd c (or earlier) BC scripture but 2nd c BC manuscripts is not a problem for any group with a library and indeed might support a group concerned with preserving religious texts that otherwise might have been destroyed in the the war.
by 'first c AD movement' yuo may have in mind the idea that the 'siccarii' (knifemen) were a purely 1st c AD commando -assassin battalion of the zealots, who themselves went back to the Maccabean revolt.
Quote:
And if they were not written by the Essenes, then that raises two questions. Who did write them, and store them in jars manufactured from clay from that immediate location, and where were the Essenes actually based?
Answered above - other than where the Essenes were. They could have been anywhere. They didn't need to live like desert anchorites. They needed food and water. They could live in cities but remain separated from societies. It puzzled me a bit when Quran was called 'Essene' and it was supposed that Essenes lived in remote monasteries miles from human habitation, but there was a 'gate of the Essenes' in Jerusalem. I have to admit that the 'man with the water jar' before the last supper was supposed to be an Essene, but what was he doing in Jerusalem? I don't see that as reliable, now, but it made me wonder why we seemed to have two kinds of Essenes - the ones in the city and the ones out in the sticks.
As to the library in the Jars, it is in the archaeology that there was a Roman attack on zealots in Qumran monastery. It is explained away as Bar Kochba's zealots driving away the Essenes (who hid their library in the cave) and using the building for a stand against the Romans. But, if we suppose they were zealots all along and had the time to cache their own library because they knew the Romans were coming for them.
Quote:
While there are problems with this idea, there are also problems with the alternatives.
I think there are more problems with the 'Essene' hypothesis than the 'Zealot' one
But who were these zealots? Pharisees, for sure - always a thorn in the side of Authority- Seleucid, Hasmonean, Herodian or Roman. But IF (and it is an If) Qumran was a Zealot nest of rebels (like Bethsaida. I have read - there was a battle there in the Jewish war where the Romans rooted out a zealot hotbed (1). But these were clearly religious bods with a scriptural library, with some rather warlike eschatology as well. Some seemingly messianic. Warlike religious people with a messianic viewpoint? Essenes or zealots? And if zealots, and given that Jesus as a proto Christian opposed to the pharisees is a Greek Christian view and I say that Jesus (if he existed) was a Pharisee Jew with a messianic mission. What was he and his party (whether or not called Nazoreans) if not Pharisee zealots?
Another thing I noted is that Simon the Canaanean (which means from Galilee - which covered Bethsaida, note) is also called Simon the zealot. And guess who his son was. Yes, I know 'real Jesus fanciful dot -joining I know. I sais it was a Pet Onlyatheory. But by the eveloving cringe, don't it nit well and explain a lot of puzzles?
Quote:
True, but was there actually an order of Melchizedek? The Epistle to the Hebrews says it was in heaven.
There didn't need to be. it was Biblical support for anyone claiming the post without being elected to it. It is rather similar to the Mandate of heaven in China or indeed any "God is on our side" slogan. If you win, God wanted you to. As Napoleon said: "God is on the side of the big battalions".
(1) First call by Jesus to recruit four or five thousand Men (Matth 14.21 and 15.38 and the other accounts, though only Matthew tacks on women and children as an afterthought) to support his messianic mission. Especially if it involved sneaking into the Temple disguised as a Hoshana procession and take it over, given that at festival time Pilate was there with a thousand Roman auxiliaries to keep the peace.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 09-25-2018 at 09:28 AM..
I was going to save this for Harry (God save thee, Harry!) and his probable rebuttal to my The Real Jesus theory. But let's do it, before i forget.
My line to the Jews is what I have in mind, if you can catch my Long Pass and run with it, is that you don't stomp on Jesus, but reclaim him. I think he is one of your boys. One of a line of failed messiahs and a Jewish patriot. Someone to be proud of, not detest as the figure who started off Christian persecution of Jews. They hi-jacked Jesus, just as they hi -jacked everything else.
There's a joke too.
A Muslim, a Catholic and Jew walked into a bar. The bartender is a chimp (1)
After some discussion the jew is arguing how important Jews are, despite their small numbers.
"But thow important can a Jew get, in the Jewish church, I mean?" asked the Catholic, causing the Jew to wince.
"Well, there's an office of the Chief Rabbi..."
"Cardinals have more power than that." scoffs the Catholic.
"Cardinals?" laughs the Muslim, wiping Rosewater off his beard. "We have Caliphs - they rule countries!"
"Chickenfeed." says the Catholic. "We had a Holy Roman Empire; ruled nearly all Europe."
"Pitiful." quoth the bearded one. "The prophet Muhammad, pubh and grill, ruled a far mightier empire than that."
"But the Pope is the spiritual head of the world!" cried the Catholic, spilling his Guinnesss. "And there is no -one higher than he, unless he is equal to God!"
"Well", said the Jew. "One of our boys made it."
(1) for some reason, every time an atheist tells a Bar -joke the bartender has to be a Chimp. Search me. And, if ever a "Mohammed's Pubh and grill (halal)" opens in Newport's Commercial road, I shall die a happy man, in the ensuing riots.
No, merely yourselves needing to invent one for me to suit your own. Any criticism of some aspect s of Jewish history will be labeled as 'anti-Semitic' when it can't be refuted, to shut down criticism, particularly some the more blatantly racist features of the orthodox sects and Chassidics. Christians are as Jewish theologically as any other Jew, another fact tribal Jews hate to admit, since it means they aren't 'special' just because of the genealogies and DNA.
I don't need to invent anything, I am not Jewish, I don't have any Jewish family, no Jewish blood. It is what it is, it's what it looks like to me.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 09-25-2018 at 10:23 AM..
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I know. I sais it was a Pet Onlyatheory. But by the eveloving cringe, don't it nit well and explain a lot of puzzles? 
There didn't need to be. it was Biblical support for anyone claiming the post without being elected to it. It is rather similar to the Mandate of heaven in China or indeed any "God is on our side" slogan. If you win, God wanted you to. As Napoleon said: "God is on the side of the big battalions".
A message to the Chosen.
