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Can you give a reference as to where someone said that Noah preached to the ungodly?
Otherwise, the title and premise of this thread doesn't make any sense.
2 Peter 2:5
if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
Reading this, people assume that Noach preached to the ungodly, however, there is no reference in the Torah that Noach had did this, so where does this idea come from if it is not in the Torah?...
Some translations call him a "herald" of righteousness.
Personally, I don't think anyone necessarily knows the original meaning of the story. There may be traditions and beliefs carried by both Jews and Christians, but we really don't know who has the final answer. We don't even know if the prophets of Israel would have understood the story. We don't know if the original Christians understood it either. So it's all just speculation at this point.
if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
Reading this, people assume that Noach preached to the ungodly, however, there is no reference in the Torah that Noach had did this, so where does this idea come from if it is not in the Torah?...
Peter was a Jew, writing to Jews. He likely heard it from somewhere.
It's not only speculation today. It was speculation during the time of Jesus by his own followers, and probably throughout most of ancient Israel's time.
Is there any reference in the Torah that Noach preached to the ungodly to repent?...
Here are a couple of quotes
6:14 - Rashi
MAKE THEE AN ARK — There are numerous ways by which God could have saved Noah; why, then, did he burden him with this construction of the Ark? So that the men of the generation of the Flood might see him employed on it for 120 years and might ask him, “What do you need this for”? and so that he might answer them, “The Holy One, blessed be He, is about to bring a flood upon the world” — perhaps they might repent (Sanhedrin 108b).
Sforno - during the period allocated to them, in order to remind them to do teshuvah.
Rabbeinu Bachya --
At this point, an intelligent child must surely ask how it is possible that a man whom the Torah described in the most glowing terms as a righteous and perfect individual did not turn to G-d in prayer in order to help save the members of his generation and give them a chance to repent and rehabilitate themselves?. Why did he not engage G-d in a dialogue as Avraham did after him when G-d had informed him that He was going to destroy the city of Sodom and its inhabitants? Avraham had prayed repeatedly and almost insistently as we know from the report of the Torah in Genesis chapter 18.
The answer to this question is that Noach did not “neglect” to pray for his contemporaries either because he did not care or felt that they deserved to perish. He knew that there was a need for only ten righteous people in order to ensure the survival of the world as it was. He based this tradition on the ten directives G-d employed to create the universe. He reasoned that if there were indeed ten righteous people alive at that time G-d would not have instructed him to prepare for the deluge by building the Ark. Under the prevailing circumstances, only eight people had been commanded to enter the Ark, ( Noach and his wife, his three sons and their respective wives) i.e. proof that at that time there were already no ten righteous people left on earth. [Avraham had also stopped praying when he realised that there were fewer than ten good people in Sodom. Ed.] Seeing there were no ten good people left on earth it was clear to him that the generation did not merit survival on account of the remaining eight good people. Under the circumstances, the most that G-d was willing to do was to save Noach seeing he was the first member of the tenth generation of mankind. G-d accommodated Noach by also saving his immediate family. The fact that Avraham himself did not bother to implore G-d to save the city of Sodom for the sake of fewer than ten righteous people proves that Noach cannot be faulted for not having prayed when told to take only seven additional human beings into the Ark with him. In fact, Noach was not even allowed to pray when he knew there were fewer than ten good people. In addition, as opposed to the people of Sodom, the people at the time of Noach had been given 120 years warning The people of Sodom had not been given any kind of warning by G-d prior to Avraham being informed of their impending doom. G-d is not in the habit of decreeing doom unless the potential victims had been warned (Yuma 81).
6:14 - Rashi
MAKE THEE AN ARK — There are numerous ways by which God could have saved Noah; why, then, did he burden him with this construction of the Ark? So that the men of the generation of the Flood might see him employed on it for 120 years and might ask him, “What do you need this for”? and so that he might answer them, “The Holy One, blessed be He, is about to bring a flood upon the world” — perhaps they might repent (Sanhedrin 108b).
Sforno - during the period allocated to them, in order to remind them to do teshuvah.
Rabbeinu Bachya --
At this point, an intelligent child must surely ask how it is possible that a man whom the Torah described in the most glowing terms as a righteous and perfect individual did not turn to G-d in prayer in order to help save the members of his generation and give them a chance to repent and rehabilitate themselves?. Why did he not engage G-d in a dialogue as Avraham did after him when G-d had informed him that He was going to destroy the city of Sodom and its inhabitants? Avraham had prayed repeatedly and almost insistently as we know from the report of the Torah in Genesis chapter 18.
The answer to this question is that Noach did not “neglect” to pray for his contemporaries either because he did not care or felt that they deserved to perish. He knew that there was a need for only ten righteous people in order to ensure the survival of the world as it was. He based this tradition on the ten directives G-d employed to create the universe. He reasoned that if there were indeed ten righteous people alive at that time G-d would not have instructed him to prepare for the deluge by building the Ark. Under the prevailing circumstances, only eight people had been commanded to enter the Ark, ( Noach and his wife, his three sons and their respective wives) i.e. proof that at that time there were already no ten righteous people left on earth. [Avraham had also stopped praying when he realised that there were fewer than ten good people in Sodom. Ed.] Seeing there were no ten good people left on earth it was clear to him that the generation did not merit survival on account of the remaining eight good people. Under the circumstances, the most that G-d was willing to do was to save Noach seeing he was the first member of the tenth generation of mankind. G-d accommodated Noach by also saving his immediate family. The fact that Avraham himself did not bother to implore G-d to save the city of Sodom for the sake of fewer than ten righteous people proves that Noach cannot be faulted for not having prayed when told to take only seven additional human beings into the Ark with him. In fact, Noach was not even allowed to pray when he knew there were fewer than ten good people. In addition, as opposed to the people of Sodom, the people at the time of Noach had been given 120 years warning The people of Sodom had not been given any kind of warning by G-d prior to Avraham being informed of their impending doom. G-d is not in the habit of decreeing doom unless the potential victims had been warned (Yuma 81).
Some translations call him a "herald" of righteousness.
Personally, I don't think anyone necessarily knows the original meaning of the story. There may be traditions and beliefs carried by both Jews and Christians, but we really don't know who has the final answer. We don't even know if the prophets of Israel would have understood the story. We don't know if the original Christians understood it either. So it's all just speculation at this point.
amen, and i imagine his family was grateful to the Lord for the gift of noach.
" cast your bread upon the waters"
Last edited by pinacled; 10-08-2018 at 11:54 AM..
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