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We are in God's plan. He knew Adam and Eve would eat of it, and he predestined his people from before time began. Jesus was not plan B. He knew it would happen and he knew from before the foundations of the world that he would call me to salvation.
That should be a tremendous reassurance. Nothing catches God by surprise.
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Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
What verse are you paraphrasing that from?
Scripture says that before God created the world, he predestined Christians to be saved.
Eph 1:3-6 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved."
What verse says that?
First of all, saying I "sought to corrupt it" is to suggest motive. That is rude to tell me my intent.
Second....I quoted Scripture. Could you show me where I changed it?
The difference is in your first post you apply the corrupting of mankind to God as a foregone "conclusion".
The scripture in Eph 1:3-6 says; chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him....
While you say in your first post that eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and corrupting creation was all part of what you call God's plan. Which doesn't square with what the scripture you quoted says. The beginning and conclusion being at odds. Nor does it square with the scripture I referenced in my previous post. As you have applied an evil intent upon God, as if the satan/serpent was doing and fulfilling God's will, while speaking directly against God's word.
Would you trip someone and then offer to help them up as long as they ask forgiveness for falling.
The difference is in your first post you apply the corrupting of mankind to God as a foregone "conclusion".
That's what it says in Ephesians 2. Chapter 1 says he predestined Christians, choosing us before the foundation of the world. Why would he need to do that if we weren't going to be corrupt? In chapter 2 it says we were children of wrath, along with the rest of mankind. This is an idea echoed throughout Scripture. We need a savior because we are corrupt because of sin.
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The scripture in Eph 1:3-6 says; chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him....
While you say in your first post that eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and corrupting creation was all part of what you call God's plan.
He knew it was going to happen, yes. And He predestined Christians to salvation before it even happened.
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Which doesn't square with what the scripture you quoted says. The beginning and conclusion being at odds. Nor does it square with the scripture I referenced in my previous post. As you have applied an evil intent upon God, as if the satan/serpent was doing and fulfilling God's will, while speaking directly against God's word.
Where have I done that? I didn't say that God caused anyone to sin.
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Would you trip someone and then offer to help them up as long as they ask forgiveness for falling.
Strawman argument. No one suggests that God tripped anyone.
That's what it says in Ephesians 2. Chapter 1 says he predestined Christians, choosing us before the foundation of the world. Why would he need to do that if we weren't going to be corrupt? In chapter 2 it says we were children of wrath, along with the rest of mankind. This is an idea echoed throughout Scripture. We need a savior because we are corrupt because of sin.
He knew it was going to happen, yes. And He predestined Christians to salvation before it even happened.
Where have I done that? I didn't say that God caused anyone to sin.
Strawman argument. No one suggests that God tripped anyone.
It seems according to all your slicing and dicing, you say that if Adam and the Woman hadn't sinned then that itself would have been sin. And be going against sin that you claim God predestined.
It seems according to all your slicing and dicing, you say that if Adam and the Woman hadn't sinned then that itself would have been sin. And be going against sin that you claim God predestined.
Nope. Never said that. I said that God knew they would. And he planned for it. They never could have avoided it.
Said what? That God knew they were going to sin? It's what Scripture says. And it shouldn't surprise us that an omniscient, omnipotent God would know what is going to happen.
God's original and only plan is for us to overcome and endure this physical existence to grow and develop into mature loving spirits ready to be "born again" as spirits upon our physical demise.
God's original and only plan is for us to overcome and endure this physical existence to grow and develop into mature loving spirits ready to be "born again" as spirits upon our physical demise.
Despite never actually SAYING that to anyone in Scripture.
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What was God's original plan for mankind?
