What was God's original plan for mankind? (quotes, Satan, Lord)
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Guess you can’t see that “free will” is a written man thing too, no?
Well! Isn't that a potentially great topic to discuss!
I actually never thought of that one!
I often do not feel I have free will...but, as one in love that is a 'prisoner of love' like the famous Perry Como song I just saw on PBS.
I am truly led to go right or left...that's not free will. I'm not complaining, tho.
No, you made the statement that there was no pain or they didn’t know pain, but G-d said that He would INCREASE her pain, He couldn’t increase something if it didn’t already exist..
oh my, another one I never caught!....there are some very clever people on this forum!
First off, it appears the Garden of Eden was some type of genetic experiment because there were other existing civilizations as evidenced by the Biblical reference to the Land of Nod. Nod is also where Cain found a wife.
The Land of Nod (Hebrew: ארץ נוד, eretz-Nod) is a place mentioned in the Book of Genesis of the Hebrew Bible, located "on the east of Eden" (qidmat-'Eden), where Cain was exiled by God after Cain had murdered his brother Abel. According to Genesis 4:16: ... "Nod" (נוד) is the Hebrew root of the verb "to wander" (לנדוד). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Nod
If Adam and Eve would have not have eaten the fruit:
Man would have to work to the sweat of his brow for survival.
Childbearing pain would not be as severe.
And the husband would not have had dominion in marriage.
To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." https://biblehub.com/genesis/3-16.htm
Elohim is plural. So, that would depend upon the Gods.
Who were the Elohim? Enki and Enlil? Who?
New International Version
Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
New International Version
God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground." https://biblehub.com/genesis/1-28.htm
Why would you think otherwise?
Large enough to be associated with 4 rivers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
G-d did not say the He would make her pains in childbearing very severe, but that He would increase them, which implies that she already knew what it felt like to bear children, otherwise, how could they be increased if there was no starting point or reference point for her to realize that they had been increased?...This is also why it is written in Hebrew that “Adam had known his wife, Chava” instead of “knew”, because “had known” implies that this took place in Gan Eden...
Berei**** - Genesis - Chapter 3
16 To the woman He said, "I shall surely increase your sorrow and your pregnancy; in pain you shall bear children. And to your husband will be your desire, and he will rule over you."
Berei**** - Genesis - Chapter 4
1 Now the man knew his wife Eve, and she conceived and bore Cain, and she said, "I have acquired a man with the Lord."
Rashi:
Now the man knew: [This took place], prior to the above episode, before he sinned and was banished from the Garden of Eden. Also the conception and the birth [took place before], for if it were written: וַיֵּדַע אָדָם it would mean that after he had been banished, he had sons. — [from Sanh. 38b]
Cain: Heb. קַיִן, based on קָנִיתִי, I acquired.
with the Lord: Heb. אֶת יהוה, like עִם יהוה, with the Lord. When He created me and my husband, He alone created us, but with this one, we are partners with Him. — [from Gen. Rabbah 22:2, Mid. Tadshei, Niddah 31a]
Cain… his brother Abel: Heb. אֶת קַיִן אֶת אָחִיו אֶת הָבֶל. The word אֶת is repeated three times to suggest additional things. This teaches that a twin sister was born with Cain, and with Abel were born two. Therefore, it is said: וַתֹּסֶף, and she continued, or added. — [from Gen. Rabbah 22:2, 3]
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest
New International Version
To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." https://biblehub.com/genesis/3-16.htm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
My version is from the Torah, not some watered down version...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
oh my, another one I never caught!....there are some very clever people on this forum!
Well! Isn't that a potentially great topic to discuss!
I actually never thought of that one!
I often do not feel I have free will...but, as one in love that is a 'prisoner of love' like the famous Perry Como song I just saw on PBS.
I am truly led to go right or left...that's not free will. I'm not complaining, tho.
I think it's the fact that both right and left are options that matters. Regardless of whether you're led one way or the other (which I believe to be the case), you are not forced to go the way you're being led. At least I don't think you are. And if you are, isn't everybody? And if everybody is, why are there still so many jerks around?!?
Most importantly, though, is the fact that there are options. Had Adam and Eve remained forever in the Garden of Eden and had never eaten the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, their lives might have been "good" (in the extreme), but without evil (its opposite), "good" is pretty much meaningless. With just one option, there is no choice and no true appreciation of what "good" really is.
This is a tough one...If you look at every species that exists on the planet...mankind is the ONLY one that is more like a parasite or virus, in regards to its habitat/environment.
Its almost like this was not our home, and maybe we were brought from 'somewhere' else.
This is a tough one...If you look at every species that exists on the planet...mankind is the ONLY one that is more like a parasite or virus, in regards to its habitat/environment.
Its almost like this was not our home, and maybe we were brought from 'somewhere' else.
There's no doubt about anything you posted...numbers and hematology do not lie...are the reports about chromosome II fact or fiction!?
This is a tough one...If you look at every species that exists on the planet...mankind is the ONLY one that is more like a parasite or virus, in regards to its habitat/environment.
Its almost like this was not our home, and maybe we were brought from 'somewhere' else.
Not really. It's just that our extraordinary ability to adapt our environment to suit us rather than adapt to the environment or be Taken out by it, has allowed us to become like an infestation. We have seen this with other species like rabbits or cane toads, when we have meddled with the environment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest
There's no doubt about anything you posted...numbers and hematology do not lie...are the reports about chromosome II fact or fiction!?
Exactly. Though I am sure that rstevens was not suggesting than an alien race (let alone an alien being) plonked us here. The demonstrable genetic links to ALL the rest of biology and for that matter the matter of the cosmos, places us here as legitimately as any Rat or locust. Viruses, now. One might make a case for aliens having introduced them in hopes to wipe humanity out so they could take over. Unfortunately, being cloned in vats like Orcs, themselves, they failed to consider that evolution would enable us to survive the Virus infestation.
We all know the biblical story of how mankind fell because the eating of the fruit from the tree of knowledge.
So, lets wonder what would have happened if Eve and Adam didn't try that fruit.
Who can answer:
What was God's original plan for man?
Was there a heaven before original sin?
How big was the Garden of Eden?
We don’t know the answer to these.
However, if an entity called “God” decides to get something done, and things don’t go as per his plan - then seriously - this entity cannot be called a “God”.
We all know the biblical story of how mankind fell because the eating of the fruit from the tree of knowledge.
So, lets wonder what would have happened if Eve and Adam didn't try that fruit.
Who can answer:
What was God's original plan for man?
Was there a heaven before original sin?
How big was the Garden of Eden?
G-d’s plan hasn’t changed...
There was G-d...
How big is Egypt?...
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