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Good point. Though from the warm glow of feelgood to a placebo reduction of stress is not too much of a leap. But I do notice that there in no mention of religion in the article. While altruism might bring some benefit to the giver, how is this some kind of advert for religion? There has always been the suspicion that some Christians have the idea that they have to please God, because getting to heaven is never a guarantee. So isn't there the suspicion that no good act by a Christian is really without some hope that it is getting them a little bit more of a guarantee of being saved?
Whereas secularists, if they help out (and they do) have no such carrot, nor indeed stick, prompting them. The do it without any expectation of getting anything back, other than a long -term effect of making people better.
Oh, and a feelgood effect taking the stress -levels down a notch, of course.
Making our sweet ol' Nate lose his trust in you? Weird because as far as I have read both your posts I had the impression that both of you were into deeply liberal versions of Christianity.
Is it that you have been fibbing for Jesus often? That does not look good, although it's understandable that bias can often carry us in the direction of that which is misleading.
I doubt joining a religion for the health benefits would count as kindness nor as "non-strategic."
I read the news article from ScienceDaily and searched the science article that they linked. No mention of a positive effect on health, just that "the warm glow" of altruistic kindness might be linked to the different brain state correlated with such a kindness (according to fMRI, both the reward areas and an extra area*) as opposed to strategic kindness (only the reward area).
*I searched further on this: the extra area is the "sgACC" which might be involved in modulating emotional behavior and also is possibly implicated in partially preventing some mood disorders like major depression and bipolar disorder.
Still, the metastudy in no way yet supposes (nor does the news article) that altruistic kindness would have a causal positive effect on mental health (let alone general health).
Would be nice to know though, since these are brain imaging studies. I have heard that a more positive mood is correlated with better overall health.
directly qouted from the article:
" But they also found that acts of altruism, with no hope of personal benefit, activate the reward areas of the brain too, and more than that, that some brain regions (in the 'subgenual anterior cingulate cortex') were more active during altruistic generosity, indicating that there is something unique about being altruistic with no hope of gaining something in return."
Good point. Though from the warm glow of feelgood to a placebo reduction of stress is not too much of a leap. But I do notice that there in no mention of religion in the article. While altruism might bring some benefit to the giver, how is this some kind of advert for religion? There has always been the suspicion that some Christians have the idea that they have to please God, because getting to heaven is never a guarantee. So isn't there the suspicion that no good act by a Christian is really without some hope that it is getting them a little bit more of a guarantee of being saved?
Whereas secularists, if they help out (and they do) have no such carrot, nor indeed stick, prompting them. The do it without any expectation of getting anything back, other than a long -term effect of making people better.
Oh, and a feelgood effect taking the stress -levels down a notch, of course.
one doesnt have to be religious to have natural empathy, sympathy or morals. many humanist and secular organizations not only advocate for human digity, but are quite altruistic.
to clarify, this article states that there is something physically unique to this type of altruism.
qouted directly from article:
" But they also found that acts of altruism, with no hope of personal benefit, activate the reward areas of the brain too, and more than that, that some brain regions (in the 'subgenual anterior cingulate cortex') were more active during altruistic generosity, indicating that there is something unique about being altruistic with no hope of gaining something in return."
Good point. Though from the warm glow of feelgood to a placebo reduction of stress is not too much of a leap. But I do notice that there in no mention of religion in the article. While altruism might bring some benefit to the giver, how is this some kind of advert for religion? There has always been the suspicion that some Christians have the idea that they have to please God, because getting to heaven is never a guarantee. So isn't there the suspicion that no good act by a Christian is really without some hope that it is getting them a little bit more of a guarantee of being saved?
Whereas secularists, if they help out (and they do) have no such carrot, nor indeed stick, prompting them. The do it without any expectation of getting anything back, other than a long -term effect of making people better.
Oh, and a feelgood effect taking the stress -levels down a notch, of course.
It's very much the megachurch mentality, very snake oil.
"My whole perspective on my faith has been a transaction."
" But they also found that acts of altruism, with no hope of personal benefit, activate the reward areas of the brain too, and more than that, that some brain regions (in the 'subgenual anterior cingulate cortex') were more active during altruistic generosity, indicating that there is something unique about being altruistic with no hope of gaining something in return."
I did read that. I agree there is something unique about different brain areas lighting up in the MRI machine, but nothing about greater health benefits. The implications that the metastudy authors did note was for marketing and corporate fundraising strategies. They didn't even bring health to it, other than mentioning a "warm glow."
Last edited by LuminousTruth; 10-21-2018 at 02:58 PM..
I did read that. I agree there is something unique about different brain areas lighting up in the MRI machine, but nothing about greater health benefits. The implications that the metastudy authors did note was for Marketing and Corporate Fundraising Strategies. They didn't even bring health to it, other than mentioning a "warm glow."
i dont encroach, condemn or judge those with different or no beliefs.
what is the point
why would i take the time to self righteously impose my beliefs on someone who adheres to something differently
i dont micromanage free speech; therefore, i will not impose my beliefs on someone else.
dictatorships tend do those sort of things.
i believe in individual freedom, not a theocratic dictatorship
Of course, the above video's title is click-baited by Buzzfeed. She still believes in a God, but not a Megachurch God.
Oh yes. 'Working up religion' is mass -marketing of the warm fuzzies, inflated to hot fizzies. But it's works fine for the individual. "Take some home with you today".
I'll watch that vid, too. In fact the best line for atheism now (I think) is to engage with those who leave the megachurch for the smaller church, the smaller church for personal belief, personal belief for irreligion, irreligion for doubt. Anyone who asks a question and decides to opt out of any 'Flow', is a fair game to be targe... hmmm...a sincere questioner to be engaged with by atheism in hopes to achieve better understanding and respect.
Hmm. Well her husband stopped believing and it rather seems that she did too. She couldn't have been ostracised by the church community any more if she had.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 10-21-2018 at 04:49 PM..
many religions and spiritualities advocate altruism. now, a scientific study has found that giving without being recipricated has a positive effect on health
Luke 14:11-14 (WEB)
11 For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.”
12 He also said to the one who had invited him, “When you make a dinner or a supper, don’t call your friends, nor your brothers, nor your kinsmen, nor rich neighbors, or perhaps they might also return the favor, and pay you back.
13 But when you make a feast, ask the poor, the maimed, the lame, or the blind;
14 and you will be blessed, because they don’t have the resources to repay you. For you will be repaid in the resurrection of the righteous.”
Luke 6:33-34 (WEB)
33 If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same.
34 If you lend to those from whom you hope to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to receive back as much.
Sure, people can feel good about themselves when they give a little, when they give what they can afford. I doubt they measured how people feel when they give too much and cause themselves hardship, or when their giving is not appreciated.
i dont encroach, condemn or judge those with different or no beliefs.
what is the point
why would i take the time to self righteously impose my beliefs on someone who adheres to something differently
i dont micromanage free speech; therefore, i will not impose my beliefs on someone else.
dictatorships tend do those sort of things.
i believe in individual freedom, not a theocratic dictatorship
Oh... well, O.K.
Are you talking about nate's possible misunderstanding of you?
Still, since the sgACC is involved, and that brain region might possibly be involved in better health, altruistic kindness might be involved in better health as well.
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hmmm...a sincere questioner to be engaged with by atheism in hopes to achieve better understanding and respect.
