Why do you think people are starving and have no clean water in places? (bible, Biblical)
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It’s the LEVEL of evil and suffering on this planet that keeps me struggling with the image of a loving God.
Yes, it’s easy to see the weaknesses in mankind that have caused wars, suffering,and genocide, but I just can’t buy the story that it’s man’s fault for this level of suffering because the bucks stops with God, as the original creator of EVERYTHING.
Watch how a cat enjoys the suffering of a mouse it’s caught as it pulls off a limb and then lets the mouse go so it can have the fun of catching and torturing it again as it tries to hobble away terrified. That level of evil was not caused by man’s sinning or disobedience to God. GOD CREATED EVERYTHING, EVEN THAT— where’s the love in that?
Look at the twisted deformed suffering of little newborn babies that are born with such painful maladies and have not even had a chance to even sin yet.
I do believe there is an intelligent creator behind all this amazing universe, but I stumble with trusting in the LOVING image.
Yes, there is love and poignant goodness along with the evil. But it’s the LEVEL of evil that gets me. I don’t see it as just for our teaching — hey, slap me in the face and I’ve got the teaching how bad violence is — I don’t need to see a young girl gang raped by ten men and left to die in a gutter......it’s the LEVEL.
What you really put forth is basically an offshoot of "The Problem of Evil/Suffering", .
And as for other "bad things" in the world: It isn't the fault of Deities that a child is a rape victim...it is HUMANS conducting as rapists.
WE are the "selfish and uncaring "Powerful Entities" that COULD do something, but DON'T. It isn't due to DEITIES doing nothing even though they could..there is only US acting that way.
There is plenty to go around...it is because many hoard much more than they need, while others lack the minimum to survive.
THAT is why some people starve and have no clean water.
Of course you are right on this at just a relative level. But if one believes in a god, deities, or creating intelligence that is behind the creation of EVERYTHING then the buck does stop with that god since it even made the POSIBILITY available for this level of evilness and suffering. So the fault for me lies with the ULTIMATE creator of this level of suffering and evil even being made possible to enact in the first place.
What’s the point of having such an outrageous degree of suffering just to show mankind its weakenesses?
Of course you are right on this at just a relative level. But if one believes in a god, deities, or creating intelligence that is behind the creation of EVERYTHING then the buck does stop with that god since it even made the POSIBILITY available for this level of evilness and suffering. So the fault for me lies with the ULTIMATE creator of this level of suffering and evil even being made possible to enact in the first place.
What’s the point of having such an outrageous degree of suffering just to show mankind its weakenesses?
If you mean roll of the dice creation, I just can’t buy that. There is too much jaw-dropping intelligence
behind this universe to be a roll of the dice type coincidence deal.
If you mean roll of the dice creation, I just can’t buy that. There is too much jaw-dropping intelligence
behind this universe to be a roll of the dice type coincidence deal.
Yes, it is all incredible, but it is animated. Animated creations make choices of various degrees.
It’s the LEVEL of evil and suffering on this planet that keeps me struggling with the image of a loving God.
Yes, it’s easy to see the weaknesses in mankind that have caused wars, suffering,and genocide, but I just can’t buy the story that it’s man’s fault for this level of suffering because the bucks stops with God, as the original creator of EVERYTHING.
Watch how a cat enjoys the suffering of a mouse it’s caught as it pulls off a limb and then lets the mouse go so it can have the fun of catching and torturing it again as it tries to hobble away terrified. That level of evil was not caused by man’s sinning or disobedience to God. GOD CREATED EVERYTHING, EVEN THAT— where’s the love in that?
Look at the twisted deformed suffering of little newborn babies that are born with such painful maladies and have not even had a chance to even sin yet.
I do believe there is an intelligent creator behind all this amazing universe, but I stumble with trusting in the LOVING image.
Yes, there is love and poignant goodness along with the evil. But it’s the LEVEL of evil that gets me. I don’t see it as just for our teaching — hey, slap me in the face and I’ve got the teaching how bad violence is — I don’t need to see a young girl gang raped by ten men and left to die in a gutter......it’s the LEVEL.
As a Pantheist, I view "ALL" (The Universe...in totality) as God.
One may view certain acts as "evil"...like the cat working over the mouse before killing it...but "evil" requires a deliberate malevolent attitude. The cat has no ill-will toward the mouse...it is just working off instincts.
The bacteria that causes a plague that sickens and kills many is not doing what it does with any sort of thought behind it.
The tornado or hurricane does not plan and then carry out its destruction.
The only true "evil" or "cruel selfishness" possible is that which is carried out by entities that intend and choose to act that way.
The person driving a car that runs over a person that jumped into the road without warning is not "evil" like a person that intentionally runs somebody down...even though the result is the same.
As a Pantheist, I view "ALL" (The Universe...in totality) as God.
One may view certain acts as "evil"...like the cat working over the mouse before killing it...but "evil" requires a deliberate malevolent attitude. The cat has no ill-will toward the mouse...it is just working off instincts.
The bacteria that causes a plague that sickens and kills many is not doing what it does with any sort of thought behind it.
The tornado or hurricane does not plan and then carry out its destruction.
The only true "evil" or "cruel selfishness" possible is that which is carried out by entities that intend and choose to act that way.
The person driving a car that runs over a person that jumped into the road without warning is not "evil" like a person that intentionally runs somebody down...even though the result is the same.
Pantheism has so many varying descriptions, but I do agree with pantheism’s view that everything is part of an all-encompassing, immanent God. Where I differ is I feel there is a personal-type relationship that happens with said creator.
How do you come to terms with the LEVEL of evil and suffering here?
As a Pantheist, I view "ALL" (The Universe...in totality) as God.
One may view certain acts as "evil"...like the cat working over the mouse before killing it...but "evil" requires a deliberate malevolent attitude. The cat has no ill-will toward the mouse...it is just working off instincts.
The bacteria that causes a plague that sickens and kills many is not doing what it does with any sort of thought behind it.
The tornado or hurricane does not plan and then carry out its destruction.
The only true "evil" or "cruel selfishness" possible is that which is carried out by entities that intend and choose to act that way. The person driving a car that runs over a person that jumped into the road without warning is not "evil" like a person that intentionally runs somebody down...even though the result is the same.
Evil is to intentionally inflict harm i.e robbing one of innocence, murder, purposefully leading one astray, etc.
On second thought, evil is a human construct as it does not apply to the animal kingdom(s).
moutainrose and gabfest....this is what I had in mind when I made the thread..to 'get to the bottom' of the 'God thing'.
Good points, both of you!
Sure, there would be valid answers like ego, greed, (mine is colossal insensitivity to others), governments, etc...
but, 'How does this relate to a Creator/God'?
Is it His fault He created us, BUT then gave us the free will to do most anything?
The constant blaming of God vs He is a loving God, hmm.
I should have said that in the OP...what was I thinking!!!? But it's all good.
Thank you both.
Good point is: the cat and mouse situation...or the leopard and gentle, vegetarian antelope I see
on the Sunday morning Nature shows 'evil'?
Is God to blame for that and the suffering in African countries.* If so,
how are we to live with that reality... In anger or do we delve deeper into the Mind of God for 'why'?
Is God like a cutter, a self-destructive Being? Yet, why is any person self destructive?
What's at the bottom of that? Is that a microcosm of this God?
*I was reminded again watching the movie 'Bohemian Rhapsody' and being
reminded of LIVE AID in '85.
moutainrose and gabfest....this is what I had in mind when I made the thread..to 'get to the bottom' of the 'God thing'.
Good points, both of you!
Sure, there would be valid answers like ego, greed, (mine is colossal insensitivity to others), governments, etc...
but, 'How does this relate to a Creator/God'?
Is it His fault He created us, BUT then gave us the free will to do most anything?
The constant blaming of God vs He is a loving God, hmm.
I should have said that in the OP...what was I thinking!!!? But it's all good.
Thank you both.
Good point is: the cat and mouse situation...or the leopard and gentle, vegetarian antelope I see
on the Sunday morning Nature shows 'evil'?
Is God to blame for that and the suffering in African countries.* If so,
how are we to live with that reality... In anger or do we delve deeper into the Mind of God for 'why'?
*I was reminded again watching the movie 'Bohemian Rhapsody' and being
reminded of LIVE AID in '85.
It's a real time simulation with real time consequences...we are all a part of the all seeing eye. Animated creations make choices.
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But it's all good.
