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Some people are philosophizing. Others are experimenting.
Indeed. Philosophy is fine as to asking questions and positing theories, or lines of research, at least, But you need experimental science to validate it.
yup, the claim that we are part of a cycle of life fits the requirements of what I call the four horsemen. 1) offers an explanation, 2) has a mechanism, 3) makes predictions, and 4) is repeatable by people that want to test how valid their claim. Claims that have these four are more valid than caims that don't.
A real time example of how it works can be seen in you.Your "life" forms cells that live, die, and repeat. The cells "look like" they are reincarnated and that 'something divine" is driving the whole process. This is just illusion. I was the word illusion, not delusion because 'something is going on but its not what some people in religions tells us.
Its the same with life forms in the biosphere. Life goes on in a cyclic manor. but no afterlife/magic type stuff.
I'll take a more valid claim that is supported by evidence. unfortunately I know what what I don't know so please, make it science and not person reasons why I need to deny everything.
Cycle of life? I've posted this before, but it pretty well explains it. And it's just science.
We are part of the whole, and the whole is part of us. No sentient, anthropomorphic, omnipotent entity needed.
Nature is nature, and the atoms that came from the exploding stars, the ones that were cooked in the crucible of those stars, the ones that formed the elements which are found on earth and the universe, those same elements which were the foundation of life here on earth, the atoms where the ones in your left hand may well be from a different star and time than the one in your right hand, those atoms get reintroduced into the ecosystem whence they came from once our time on earth is done.
Those atoms were there before you were born, and they will continue to be there after you die. They will become new earth, feed new plants, which will feed those that come after you. They will become new rocks, and eventually, when our sun explodes, they will be cast into the vastness of the universe, and at some point form new solar systems, and continue to live on there. (Adapted from Sagan, Krause, degrasse Tyson)
We are part of the whole, and the whole is part of us.
Part of us lives on here on earth in the DNA we have passed on to our children, and they to theirs, and so forth. We live forever in their minds, and the collective memory that we possess from generations that came before us will continue in the generations that are to come.
We are part of the whole, and the whole is part of us.
No god, no spirit, no woo at all needed, and certainly no writings from bronzed aged, superstitious desert dwellers are needed to elucidate us. It is all real, backed by science, and very much can drive your personal spirituality.
Cycle of life? I've posted this before, but it pretty well explains it. And it's just science.
We are part of the whole, and the whole is part of us. No sentient, anthropomorphic, omnipotent entity needed.
Nature is nature, and the atoms that came from the exploding stars, the ones that were cooked in the crucible of those stars, the ones that formed the elements which are found on earth and the universe, those same elements which were the foundation of life here on earth, the atoms where the ones in your left hand may well be from a different star and time than the one in your right hand, those atoms get reintroduced into the ecosystem whence they came from once our time on earth is done.
Those atoms were there before you were born, and they will continue to be there after you die. They will become new earth, feed new plants, which will feed those that come after you. They will become new rocks, and eventually, when our sun explodes, they will be cast into the vastness of the universe, and at some point form new solar systems, and continue to live on there. (Adapted from Sagan, Krause, degrasse Tyson)
We are part of the whole, and the whole is part of us.
Part of us lives on here on earth in the DNA we have passed on to our children, and they to theirs, and so forth. We live forever in their minds, and the collective memory that we possess from generations that came before us will continue in the generations that are to come.
We are part of the whole, and the whole is part of us.
No god, no spirit, no woo at all needed, and certainly no writings from bronzed aged, superstitious desert dwellers are needed to elucidate us. It is all real, backed by science, and very much can drive your personal spirituality.
Thanks for the link! That sounds great but how do you get to those who are not scientifically literate and who are anti-science? Yes the Westerners need to catch up with what the East has been doing for 1000's of years.
I do not think science is the issue in the first place. I think you can present the concepts in things including - but not limited to - CBT and Transactional Analysis without at all doing so from an overtly scientific approach. I do not think science acceptance or literacy is required for this at all.
As an example if you look over this podcast here by an Irish Podcaster he did 4 episodes on "Cognitive Psychology" - all from a very accessible and relatable lay man patter - which did not rely at any level on scientific literacy or acceptance really. In fact I would even suggest teachers teaching such a curriculum to refer to those podcasts for "Further listening".
Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni
stop wasting your time on earth arguing with people about whether or not there is a God. I don't think that's a good way to spend the only life you're going to experience.
Who are you to say what is a good or bad way to spend someone else's life though? Many people watch Reality TV - get drugged up or drunk - watch Hollywood movies - play computer games - read Fiction - play card games - and much much more.
We all have ways we invest our free time and we all get our entertainment and education in different ways.
Discussion - debate - even argument is a form of entertainment. And it is both one that can hone many skills and also be educational and informative. I would get more personal growth and knowledge and skills from a single debate on a single thread on this forum - than I would from watching a whole season of something like X-Factor.
As such I find it a _very_ good way to spend the "only life I am likely to experience" - especially when compared to some of the things I list above which are _to me_ often complete and entirely fruitless wastes of my time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
secular = non religious
nonsecular = religious
Perhaps make friends with a dictionary?
Yourself included perhaps because the definitions you present above are - frankly - wrong. And there are _plenty_ of very secular religious people. The two that spring instantly to mind are Obama (religious but did a great speech on secularism before he was POTUS) and Kenneth Miller (devout catholic - but called to the Dover Trial to promote secularism over religion in the classroom).
The claim that "secular = non-religious" is simply wrong. There is no conflict whatsoever between being secular and being religious. Some of my greatest friends and allies in fighting for a secular Ireland for example have been deeply religious people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals
So you DO “know” that God does not exist?
The only thing I "know" is that of all the people I have ever encountered who claim there is a god - either directly encountered or indirectly through the media they have produced - not a single one of them has yet offered a single reason to think there actually is a god that exists.
So - quite simply - the only _only_ reason to think there is a god is that a large number of people claim there is a god. Nothing more - or less - than that.
I do not think science is the issue in the first place. I think you can present the concepts in things including - but not limited to - CBT and Transactional Analysis without at all doing so from an overtly scientific approach. I do not think science acceptance or literacy is required for this at all.
As an example if you look over this podcast here by an Irish Podcaster he did 4 episodes on "Cognitive Psychology" - all from a very accessible and relatable lay man patter - which did not rely at any level on scientific literacy or acceptance really. In fact I would even suggest teachers teaching such a curriculum to refer to those podcasts for "Further listening".
Who are you to say what is a good or bad way to spend someone else's life though? Many people watch Reality TV - get drugged up or drunk - watch Hollywood movies - play computer games - read Fiction - play card games - and much much more.
We all have ways we invest our free time and we all get our entertainment and education in different ways.
Discussion - debate - even argument is a form of entertainment. And it is both one that can hone many skills and also be educational and informative. I would get more personal growth and knowledge and skills from a single debate on a single thread on this forum - than I would from watching a whole season of something like X-Factor.
As such I find it a _very_ good way to spend the "only life I am likely to experience" - especially when compared to some of the things I list above which are _to me_ often complete and entirely fruitless wastes of my time.
Yourself included perhaps because the definitions you present above are - frankly - wrong. And there are _plenty_ of very secular religious people. The two that spring instantly to mind are Obama (religious but did a great speech on secularism before he was POTUS) and Kenneth Miller (devout catholic - but called to the Dover Trial to promote secularism over religion in the classroom).
The claim that "secular = non-religious" is simply wrong. There is no conflict whatsoever between being secular and being religious. Some of my greatest friends and allies in fighting for a secular Ireland for example have been deeply religious people.
The only thing I "know" is that of all the people I have ever encountered who claim there is a god - either directly encountered or indirectly through the media they have produced - not a single one of them has yet offered a single reason to think there actually is a god that exists.
So - quite simply - the only _only_ reason to think there is a god is that a large number of people claim there is a god. Nothing more - or less - than that.
YES ... there are many atheist that believe we are part of a larger more complex system. And will talk open and honestly about the implications of that. I feel some of us even go just a tad to far too.
I.. Many people watch Reality TV - get drugged up or drunk - watch Hollywood movies - play computer games - read Fiction - play card games - and much much more.
Here is my personal belief based on tangible experiences. When we die our spirit/energy/soul/consciousness is separated from our physical body and we experience ego-death. Your self-identity is completely gone. You end up in a dimension where there is no space and time. This place is more real than reality itself. Whether re-incarnation takes place, I have not idea but I think it's certainly possible.
Here is my personal belief based on tangible experiences. When we die our spirit/energy/soul/consciousness is separated from our physical body and we experience ego-death. Your self-identity is completely gone. You end up in a dimension where there is no space and time. This place is more real than reality itself. Whether re-incarnation takes place, I have not idea but I think it's certainly possible.
Yeah, you're dead. Wormfood. Nothing.
And your "soul etc."?
It's just like before you were born. Nothing. Nada.
You have one life to live. Live it well, live it well for yourself, your loved ones, your descendants, and live it well for the earth you leave behind.
Becoming wormfood is your way of giving back, allowing new organisms to live. What a legacy!
It's just like before you were born. Nothing. Nada.
You have one life to live. Live it well, live it well for yourself, your loved ones, your descendants, and live it well for the earth you leave behind.
Becoming wormfood is your way of giving back, allowing new organisms to live. What a legacy!
You sound as if you speak that is the absolute proof. Are you saying you know that as fact?
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