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Irrelevant to the point I actually made. But the data on NDEs is EVIDENCE your DMT/Ayahuasca experience is also a product of the brain.
Absolutely no evidence like you suggest. If there is any evidence, I'd like to see it.
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The latest evidence is that it is a product of the whole brain. The fact that we can link consciousness to the brain is evidence we have. You have no evidence that consciousness can exist outside the brain. All you have is a god of the gaps type argument. Which logically means you are probably wrong.
Where is this latest evidence? I'd like to see it.
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Apart from the evidence I posted. Contradictory experiences, cognitive bias.
You posted absolutely no evidence whatsoever. Only your opinions.
For anyone interested in someone taking such drugs and parsing the experience without the After Life nonsense the user below is pedalling - here is an interesting link here.
But that is not what I said now is it? Not sure what you hope to gain by disagreeing with a point entirely different than the one I actually made.
Read it again:
So while we do not "know" what happens after death is pedantically a true statement - a more accurate and less misleading statement is to say "Everything we currently do know suggests nothing happens after death and consciousness puts the lights out when the brain stops. Nothing we currently know at this time suggests otherwise. Even a little bit".
I can re-write this easily to address what you just said:
So while we do not "know" that consciousness is confined solely to the brain is pedantically a true statement - a more accurate and less misleading statement is to say "Everything we currently do know suggests consciousness is linked solely to the brain Nothing we currently know at this time suggests otherwise. Even a little bit".
The problem here therefore seems to be that rather than discuss the evidence we have - you are more interested in a meta conversation about words like "know" and "believe". You are using a pedantic discussion about individual words to dodge the simple fact we have no evidence at this time for an after life, no evidence for consciousness working without a brain, and no evidence at all for consciousness separating itself from a living or dying or dead brain and going on without it.
What evidence do we have? You have shown none. It is not misleading to say we do no know that consciousness is confined solely to the brain or that we do not know what happens after you die. You said "Everything we currently do know suggests nothing happens after death and consciousness" What exactly is everything?
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Sorry, but to be frank what you have described so far (which is little to nothing) does not differ from any experience I have had. And as I said I have used those drugs myself. You are not actually describing any experience to us here - just merely asserting with no substance that my experiences differ. Which is not helpful.
Again, you fail to specifically mention what you have had experiences with. If anybody is hiding anything, it's definitely you! You automatically think because they are similar to your experience you know exactly what a DMT/Ayahuasca experience is like.
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It is like my telling you over and over that despite you claiming to have the same car as me - that my car is massively different - but I am not actually going to show you my car or tell you a single thing about it in order to evidence that difference.
Apples to oranges comparison. I cannot show you my experience. I can only tell you what my experience was like. You don't have to show me your car because I already know it's the same.
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So basically you are not engaging in this conversation in good faith or honestly. You are hiding your cards to your chest - quite wilfully - and merely demanding that we trust the card hand is of the value you tell us because you refuse to actually show us.
How am I hiding anything? What exactly am I supposed to SHOW you?
Absolutely no evidence like you suggest. If there is any evidence, I'd like to see it.
Which, there is no evidence or you would like to see the evidence you assert does not exist?
The problem is it is now behind a pay wall, but Sam Parnia linked to a paper that showed NDEs differ based on the cultural beliefs of the person having them. From UFOs to religious visions. This tells us they are a product of a brain undergoing trauma, or the brain trying to make sense of something it does not normally experience.
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Originally Posted by Diesel350z
Where is this latest evidence? I'd like to see it.
Why do you take the members of a different religion who don't know or practice the religion of Jesus to try and put their madness upon Jesus?
Jesus comes in the clouds and the clouds are his people, they are his clouds of witness and Jesus told us straight up that the kingdom will not come by eyesight, that we aren't to go out into the wilderness waiting, we are not to expect his return when somebody says,'' Behold, he is coming here or there.''
This is taught over and over in redundancy, that the day of the coming of the Lord is always at hand and those first believers knew that they were progressively walking to the day of his return in their own lives, and the very first verse of Revelation and the last thing said in Revelation is that everything written in Revelation must shortly come to pass for the reader......
Everything Jesus said was cloaked and in parable.
You are taking what modern Christians are saying about a religion that they do not know, and you use this to make false claims about Jesus.
Heck, back in the 70's a lot of people went up on their rooftops waiting for Jesus to return because they don't know what the scriptures mean, because they don't know what they are reading, they think they were literally supposed to go up on a roof to wait when it has nothing to do with going up on a roof.....
People have been predicting the day of a Messiah for centuries, the same people who can't even name the 7 feasts of Jesus that teach of his second coming.
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Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius
Everything Jesus said was cloaked and in parable.
Everything Jesus "said" was cloaked in words placed into his mouth by others years after he was dead. Even his name, Yeshua, was changed by history. No one "knows or practices the religion of Jesus," because Jesus never wrote down what HIS actual thoughts and beliefs were. So what people subscribe to are the various beliefs that have been built up around the mythical Jesus the Christ for the last 2,000 years. And those beliefs are as varied as the various individuals who have cherry picked from among the options to arrive at the Jesus the Christ that appeals to them personally.
The Way?
How Many Christian Denominations Worldwide
The Center for the Study of Global Christianity at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary estimated 34,000 denominations in 2000, rising to an estimated 43,000 in 2012. These numbers have exploded from 1,600 in the year 1900. https://theway21stcentury.wordpress....ons-worldwide/
Meanwhile, for those of us NOT inclined to subscribe, on faith, to ancient make believe, certain things are clear and indisputable. One is that the story of a corpse returning to life and flying away is frankly pretty ridiculous. And another is that everyone who lived 2,000 years ago DIED, and, like all good dead people throughout history, and despite centuries of passionate claims by the deeply devoted to the contrary, the indisputable fact is that everyone who has died have all remained remained quite reliably DEAD.
Because make believe has no ACTUAL effect on reality.
"Make believe" does have infinite actual effects otherwise people wouldn't be obsessed with asking/ridiculing people into not believing.
"Make belief" is an issue that should be taken up with the governments. The "sane people" should be able to easily demonstrate why people who employ "make belief" should not be able to vote, as that is one of the most common gripes.
Irony how? I am not claiming to have any evidence.
OK. Then we can ignore your opinions because logically and mathematically they are most likely wrong.
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