GOP Lawmaker: Execute those not following Biblical Law (myth, priest, Commandment)

[mensaguy]

I don't think Stalin killed anybody "in the name of Atheism." He was dictator in a country where religions were not tolerated, and put down every opposition, because they were opposition; not in the name of Atheism.

[badlander]

Originally Posted by mensaguy

I don't think Stalin killed anybody "in the name of Atheism." He was dictator in a country where religions were not tolerated, and put down every opposition, because they were opposition; not in the name of Atheism.

Nor should it be considered that the people he killed were Christians. In fact a large number of dead were as a presume of a very failed agricultural program plus a desire to subdue a large amount of physical property and some even include the dead in the Red Army fighting on the same side as us as part of those he killed.

Stalin are better examples of how brutal dictators behave to hold their powers and why we should never support them regardless if the are Muslim, atheists or Christians.

[Arach Angle]

Originally Posted by mensaguy

I don't think Stalin killed anybody "in the name of Atheism." He was dictator in a country where religions were not tolerated, and put down every opposition, because they were opposition; not in the name of Atheism.

look at his early life mesa. he was anti-religious to the core. I think outlawing religion fits as anti-religious agenda.

yeah, i see the same with with all major killings. they were not about religion or anti-religion, they were about killing opposition.

[mensaguy]

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

look at his early life mesa. he was anti-religious to the core. I think outlawing religion fits as anti-religious agenda.

yeah, i see the same with with all major killings. they were not about religion or anti-religion, they were about killing opposition.

I don't know much about Russian history, but I thought religion was pushed out during Lenin's regime and was already out when Stain took control.

[Shirina]

Originally Posted by BaptistFundie

Stalin. Pol Pot.

Are you seriously this bereft of reading comprehension skills, BF?

I have trounced and debunked this IDIOCY so many times that I'm not doing it again.

It's obvious that you're either incompetent to the point of illiteracy in regards to comprehending what you read, OR, you are being willfully ignorant.

Because I have written detailed posts - as a trained historian who has been studying that era of history for a long time, long before I ever earned degrees - trouncing and debunking your erroneous assertion that atheism was the reason why Stalin and Pol Pot did what they did.

I was even nice enough to concede on certain points, saying that, yes, there were some atheist groups in Stalinist Russia that murdered Russian Orthodox priests and destroyed churches because they took the "atheist" part of communism a little too seriously.

However, no one else did, not even Stalin, who was more concerned about Russians serving two masters than he was about atheism as a belief paradigm.

Never mind that Stalin was a diagnosed paranoid and Pol Pot was a known sadist going back to childhood. So was Mao, by the way.

But yeah, you don't want to hear any of that, so you keep trotting out this dead horse every time you want to bash atheists. It does nothing to add to your position and, in fact, turns you into a liar.

Sure, the first time you post it, one can simply count it as a mistake. I can overlook it because most people don't know history in the detail that I do - especially that particular era. I'm willing to happily correct them and let them know that, yes, I actually do have credentials and even taught history as a paid vocation so I'm not just another armchair historian armed with high school history classes or a World Civ I and II from college and now think they're experts.

But once I correct your mistake, repeating it again becomes more problematic. Okay, I can overlook it a second time. Maybe you just forgot what I said before. No problem. I'll reiterate.

Yet, when you post this Stalin and Pol Pot garbage a third time, it becomes clear to me that you're ignoring the facts of history and instead are trying to win arguments based on steaming piles of bullshyte that I have debunked - twice.

That makes what you say a lie, BF. Because you haven't offered a counter argument to anything I've said. You just ignore it and keep on keeping on with your dishonest tactic of spewing false information just so you have some ammunition with which to attack atheists. Who cares if it's true, right?

Unfortunately, I get the fact that "lying for Jesus" really en vogue these days just as long as you're lying to and about atheists and gays. Which of course means you can never ever again argue the position that there is an objective morality and God is the author. Nope. Not when lying to people about other people is considered perfectly fine in this circumstance, but not in that one.

You see, it's stuff like this that really annoys we atheists because, well, we are far more moral than you want to give us credit for, which means we don't flagrantly lie to Christians to bolster our arguments. We don't have to because the truth is already on our side - and if we ever reached a point in a debate where overt lying became necessary, we would concede the point.

But not people like you. Oh no. Atheists have to be 100% wrong 100% of the time even when the topic is history rather than faith, god, or religion. We're simply not allowed to know anything about any subject that even has a periphery overlap with religion.

It's shameful, to be honest, and this is why we atheists sincerely doubt the validity of Christian morality.

Originally Posted by BaptistFundie

In any event, there is one way that hundreds of thousands of innocents die a year, and Christians have very vocally opposed it. But the holocaust still goes on.

Abotion has precisely NOTHING to do with atheism, so why you even brought up this pointless strawman is a mystery to everyone with even a couple of brain cells. Are you trying to get this thread locked?

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by BaptistFundie

Why do you keep doing that? You might as well post a emo with its' fingers in its' ears singing "La,la, la.." It just makes you look denialist, inadequate and dishonest. Any attempt at a rebuttal would be better than that.


Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
In any event, there is one way that hundreds of thousands of innocents die a year, and Christians have very vocally opposed it. But the holocaust still goes on.
Shirina Abortion has precisely NOTHING to do with atheism, so why you even brought up this pointless strawman is a mystery to everyone with even a couple of brain cells. Are you trying to get this thread locked?

He is running out of counter -arguments. If they can't pin Hitler on atheism anymore (that at least has changed since the old days when Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot were the Unholy trinity of atheism, (and odd how Mao doesn't get a mention these days). So abortion which they misrepresent as a massacre of schoolkids rather than as little more than contraception, is something else they try to pin on atheism, because of course we support the rights of women to decide what to do with their own bodies rather than having their rights overridden by some old men waving an old book.

Cue the 'It's a living being' ploy. I've said it before. I cannot get executed over ants' eggs, even if they are fertilised. I'm familiar with the horror images of dead 6 month old babies with a hosepipe attached. If that was the case, I'd be up in arms, too. But that is what you get when abortion's driven underground by Bible bashing preachers and politicians who don't care a damn about people but only about using an old book of myths to get political and social control.

Ok. I've probably broken all the rules apart from 'calling a member out'. But I'm done. That's my entry to be nominated as "Righteous Patronising male Chauvinist pig of the year".

[BaptistFundie]

Originally Posted by Shirina

Abotion has precisely NOTHING to do with atheism, so why you even brought up this pointless strawman is a mystery to everyone with even a couple of brain cells. Are you trying to get this thread locked?

It's against the rules to discuss that here. I'm sure that won't affect you, but I certainly would not willingly engage in a conversation that is prohibited.

[Shirina]

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

Letting that one go, so have there been many terrible and violent Christians in History, but just as we should not point to present day Christians and say "That's what you are" you have no business to point to these past atheists and say to us: 'That's what you are'.

Unfortunately, Transponder, it's not enough to simply tell them to let it go.

Because what he and the entire fundamentalist/evangelical movement is telling everyone that an atheist society by default must mimic the regime of Stalin and Pol Pot.

Not only is this based on the fallacy of a false dichotomy considering atheists could easily point to the very successful societies of Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland, et. al. to prove atheist societies are actually better than religious societies considering those primarily secularist and atheistic nations are beating the United States in every quantifiable way from standard of living to education to life expectancy.

In fact, for men, life expectancy in the United States actually went down by a year - the only industrialized nation to see their life expectancy get shorter instead of longer.

The reason for this is because the right-wing Christians do not, I repeat, DO NOT, want the poor and the disabled to have access to health care. People like BF like to talk about abortion and compare it to the Holocaust when I have no doubt he voted for all the people who tried, in 2017, to systematically dismantle not just Obamacare but the entirety of government subsidized health care including Medicaid and Medicare.

Actually, I find the pro-life movement - which is really just a pro-birth movement - to be disgustingly immoral since many of them believe a clump of cells actually has more rights than a living, breathing, self-aware person. Which is why they will fight tooth and nail to make sure every last baby is born, but then abandon those babies the moment they take their first breaths by defunding or disbanding every last government program to help poor and single women take care of those babies.

Our state rep for our district even tried to pass a bill saying that women with Downes Syndrome babies MUST carry their babies and give birth to them -in other words, aborting a Downes Syndrome baby would be illegal. While, on the very same pamphlet, on the very same page, this state rep, Kathy Rapp, vowed to make it so difficult to get Medicaid as to make the program all but dead.

Anyhow, sorry, didn't mean to go down that road. However, it was just an excellent example of how secular societies are superior to religious ones in just about every aspect. The fact that the religious right has even managed to tie in gun rights to religion as if somehow God rather than people gave Americans the right to bear arms. Strange, isn't it, that Christians would consider the right to own a gun more important than every other right that we Americans have.

And yet, whenever there is a debate about this topic, where do they point? Stalin and Pol Pot because they want to direct the eyes of everyone to some of the worst despotic regimes in human history and then falsely blame atheism for why they were so brutal. They do not want the eyes of the people to linger too long on places like Scandinavia because then people would see the truth - and the whole Stalin/Pol Pot stupidty would be seen for what it is:

A bold-faced lie.

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

We are talking about present day atheists and Christians and who voted this guy in.

May as well forget about it, Transponder. The religious right and their benefactor, Putin's Russia and his oligarchs, has so poisoned the minds of these fundamentalist evangelicals that they have become as indoctrinated and brainwashed as the Nazis, the North Koreans, or the cult of Jim Jones.

Nothing, and I do mean nothing we say here will divert them from following a trail of lies right to the destruction of America as we know it. Which is precisely what Putin wants.

The religious right has been pumping out horrific propaganda against atheists, liberals, Democrats, and progressives for 10+ years now. People like Baptist Fundie didn't come up with the Stalin and Pol Pot argument on their own. This is the result of well-poisoning by people like Pat Robertson, though he certainly isn't the only one doing it. Just, perhaps, the most notorious.

Putin, of course, is sitting over there in Russia putting on a big show for the American fundevanglist crowd by building churches, giving massive sums of money to religious organizations, honoring clergy, and promoting with vigor the same kind of religious fervor that America has.

But that's just a show to align America's right-wing religious voters with Putin's Russia in the hopes that they will vote for candidates that essentially act like Trump and will bend over for Putin whenever he's asked. Knowing that fundevangelists never actually research anything and wouldn't believe what they found even if they did, because they would find this:

According to the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF), the Russian president signed into law measures that redefine “missionary activities” as religious practices that take place outside of state-sanctioned sites. The law bans “preaching, praying, proselytizing, and disseminating religious materials” outside of sites officially designated by the state. Citizens can also be fined up to $15,000 for engaging in these activities in private residences or distributing unauthorized religious materials through “mass print, broadcast, or online media.” Foreign missionaries also must prove they were invited by state-registered religious groups and must operate only in regions where their sponsoring organizations are registered. Missionaries who fail to comply face harsh fines and deportation.

Putin is doing the same thing with gun rights, trying to make Russia look like a gun nut haven, again designed as a lure to get right-wing voters to vote for pro-Russia and pro-Putin candidates. And yet Russia requires that you to register every gun you buy which is added to a national registry that allows Putin to track down and find every gun owner if the government decides to do so.

And yet the funevantlist gun nuts praise Russia for it's stance on guns while bashing liberals and Democrats as gun-takers, accusing them of secretly harboring a desire to repeal the 2nd Amendment and round up all the guns - something no liberal I've ever encountered, and certainly no liberal politician - has ever entertained.

It's an absolute mess and the brainwashing by Russia coupled by their own right-wing churches is now so complete that only special re-education could un-brainwash them. And with some 60 million Americans caught up in this crap, there's just very little hope - especially if somehow Trump is reelected in 2020.

I'm really not kidding about leaving the country because I represent almost everything these people hate: I'm a non-white, immigrant, liberal, Democrat, progressive, disabled, atheist female. If I were gay, too, I would represent the perfect storm of hatred all in one complete package.

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

if it wasn't Christians who agreed with his manifesto, who was it? It can only be the Christians who Claim Not To Be Like That. Perhaps they say it was just a tactic. He was Just Kidding. Nobody could be as bad as that. That's why they voted for Trump, too.

Of course it was Christians who elected this guy. They don't have any principles nor do they have any morals. They have sacrificed their morality and their humanity to elect pedophiles, misogynists, racists, xenophobes, homophobes, and bigots because they've been brainwashed into believe those traits are actually better than simply being a Democrat, a liberal, or a progressive. That is what they believe.

Those Christians these days would happily elect Adolf Hitler with Josef Stalin as his running mate just as long as they have an (R) after their names. That ... is all ... that matters ... to them. They have lost all sense of decency, all sense of empathy, all sense of what is right and wrong, all sense of morality in their blind pursuit of power. Full stop.

As for the moderate Christians, the non-crazies? Well, they'll happily stand by and allow the loons to take over. Why? Because even if these Christians don't necessarily support these candidate's policies, they'll still vote for them. Partly because of the incessant brainwashing by right-wing media, their pastors, and Russian propaganda. But also partly because they are actually afraid to vote for the other guy because now that preachers have the right to stand behind their pulpits and cajol, browbeat, and even threaten their congregations into voting for even the most heinous and disgusting person, these moderates are worried they might be ostracized, ridiculed, bullied, or even physically harmed if somehow their friends and neighbors found out they voted for the Democrat.

And hey, who knows, right? Maybe the pedophile racist really *was* chosen by God!

Some 86% of Americans identify as Christian. Therefore, it is literally impossible to get elected unless the candidate wins the Christian vote. Whoever is in office got there because of Christians. This is why all modern candidates have had to wear their religioon on their sleeves - regardless of what they actually personally believe.

[Shirina]

Originally Posted by BaptistFundie

It's against the rules to discuss that here. I'm sure that won't affect you, but I certainly would not willingly engage in a conversation that is prohibited.

I wouldn't be too sure of that. But hey, be my guest. What do I care.

[mensaguy]

Originally Posted by BaptistFundie

It's against the rules to discuss that here. I'm sure that won't affect you, but I certainly would not willingly engage in a conversation that is prohibited.

But you didn't mind bring it into this discussion.

Originally Posted by Shirina

I wouldn't be too sure of that. But hey, be my guest. What do I care.

You're probably right in that he probably would be willing to discuss it.

However, abortion is a topic better served in the Politics forum, so let's just drop that line now (or some of you could go over there and start a thread).