Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
In a simple experiment, researchers at the University of Chicago sought to find out whether a rat would release a fellow rat from an unpleasantly restrictive cage if it could. The answer was yes.
The free rat, occasionally hearing distress calls from its compatriot, learned to open the cage and did so with greater efficiency over time. It would release the other animal even if there wasn’t the payoff of a reunion with it. Astonishingly, if given access to a small hoard of chocolate chips, the free rat would usually save at least one treat for the captive — which is a lot to expect of a rat.
From an animal kingdom perspective, the scorpion is only doing what it does according to its own kind. Some animals are agressive, some are passive. Some animals even attack their own children, some are nurturing. Some animals will fight and kill each other. Some animals work together in groups.
Yet there is one thing I see in common here. No one looks at those actions and says, wow those creatures sure are immoral. Atheists want me to believe that we are nothing more than another creation, born out of time and chance. We are just another link in evolution, another branch on the giant tree of evolution. And yet if we did any of those things, we would be see as evil, grossly immoral and cruel. So the atheist tries to convince me that I am an animal because we share so many similarities with other species and they point to things like how dogs express real human emotions. We are animals because animals are like us.
I recently watched a documentary about illegal gambling in the US. It took a look into the dark world of dog fighting. In one scene, the trainers take what appears to be a gentle dog wagging his tail and place him in front of his mother. So messed up. They use some tactics to agitate the dog and suddenly they turn on each other. Killing machines going after their own family. So much for being human like. Man's best friend can be manipulated and programmed into something entirely different. Because animals don't view actions in terms of morality like we do. They don't weigh consequences even though we do have some fairly intelligent species out there.
You can't have it both ways. If we are animals then we should be acting like animals. Behaving according to our preprogrammed nature and instinct, not conflicted in areas of morality.
Don't you see in your illustration that humans are animals? if we were moral creatures you wouldn't have this terrible story to tell. Humans are far worse than most animals, they make dogs kill each other over bets and entertainment. They overpopulate and create factory farming, the most hideous industry ever created. They make sex slaves out of young females. Humans are the greatest example of animalistic greed, I could sit here and type all night long on the unspeakable atrocities they have and continue to commit against themselves, other animals and this planet. What keeps most in line is the law, not ingrained morality.
Don't you see in your illustration that humans are animals? if we were moral creatures you wouldn't have this terrible story to tell. Humans are far worse than most animals, they make dogs kill each other over bets and entertainment. They overpopulate and create factory farming, the most hideous industry ever created. They make sex slaves out of young females. Humans are the greatest example of animalistic greed, I could sit here and type all night long on the unspeakable atrocities they have and continue to commit against themselves, other animals and this planet. What keeps most in line is the law, not ingrained morality.
I don't think that is true. The law is not what keeps me from fighting dogs and sex trafficking people. You think MOST people would do that if not for the penal system?
I don't think that is true. The law is not what keeps me from fighting dogs and sex trafficking people. You think MOST people would do that if not for the penal system?
Mystics have known for millennia that humans do NOT come with an innate moral system. It must be trained and large subsegments of society simply do not provide an enlightened morality. Left to its own devices a typical untrained human will become the most dangerous and capable predator on the planet indulging its inner drives with abandon. Think Lord of the Flies. This is the moral conundrum. Each society and social group adopt their own standards for training their young and those standards vary significantly.
Most of these stories about proving animal empathy involves the humans being cruel to them!
They shocked voles with electricity to see how the other voles would react. Gave rats a choice to pull a lever that would give them chocolate, but drown another rat.
omg, 1o.
Quote:
Quote:
In an experiment, macaques were trained to understand that if they pull a lever, they would be given food. When they pulled on that lever, however, the other macaque in the experiment would receive an electric shock. As a result, 87% of the macaques risked starvation to protect their fellow macaques.
Horrible experiment, but good for the birds being how they are.
The humans did worse in a similar experiment:
Quote:
the experiment worked the other way around with humans, with 87% of people pulling the lever all the way to a part marked “Danger! Severe Shock!” even as they heard people in the other room scream. This was all for just a small amount of money.
I've witnessed empathy in my own animals. I had two cats, that acted mostly like sibling rivals but when one got sick, the other suddenly groomed her head to comfort her, and stopped competing for treats. She wouldn't eat a single treat until the little sick one had eaten all she wanted.
Later, when the little one was on her death bed, she got up and went to the back door. I thought oh, she feels better to walk and she wants on the patio! No, she was telling me the other one was outside wanting in. Once I let the other in, she went back to her bed.
When I came home from having the sick one PTS, the other stayed by my side and licked my hand long after I had fallen asleep. I had an abrasion from her sandpaper tongue, the way that cats know how to comfort.
To me all of that shows a very high degree of awareness and empathy. I think humans have always given far less credit to animals than they deserve.
Mystics have known for millennia that humans do NOT come with an innate moral system. It must be trained and large subsegments of society simply do not provide an enlightened morality. Left to its own devices a typical untrained human will become the most dangerous and capable predator on the planet indulging its inner drives with abandon. Think Lord of the Flies. This is the moral conundrum. Each society and social group adopt their own standards for training their young and those standards vary significantly.
Well said Mystic. This useful thread argues that we are something more than animals as animals can do terrible things (also kind things) and dogs can be trained as killing machines. We should be able to recognize that people can be trained as well. On my trip to Cambodia there was a private museum of an ex Khmer Rouge child soldier. He was trained. He had the reason powers we all have, but no morality. He simply hasn't been allowed to think. He hadn't been taught any of the moral codes we all get taught and then some claiom come from God.
Morals and ethics come from men. we have instincts but they can be beaten out of us. Anything more than that comes from humans, We rely on humans to teach us how to behave. We have advanced problem -solving capabilities but we are animals of instinct and as you say, we have to be taught morals. We need to be very sure that everything we are taught is valid.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
