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Old 12-18-2018, 07:20 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
If atheists truly believe humans are animals then they are approving mass murder when hiring an exterminator. Also, they support slavery if they ever go visit a zoo.
You don't see this line of logic as naive, dense, cynical, and reaching?

Humans are animals: Homosapiens sapiens. I don't treat my dogs like I treat the ants trying to get into the house.

And yet dogs and ants are both animals, fancy that around a dense head.
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Old 12-18-2018, 07:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Well, my questions aside for right now, empathy is both a conscious consideration and/or an emotion/feeling, right? Empathy is the very emotion of the golden rule no? Putting yourself in someone else's shoes, right? That is the golden rule: "as you would have them do to you." And that is empathy: "attempt to feel as they feel."

Obviously, morality is more than just the golden rule, but my point is that the widest form of empathy is a huge part of morality. And no, even if I have to repeat myself, empathy is not just the golden rule directly.

So the questions above can be added to my previous ones.
What part of "You dont have to empathize with others. You just have to respect their rights if you want them to respect your rights" did you not understand?
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Old 12-18-2018, 08:10 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
What part of "You dont have to empathize with others. You just have to respect their rights if you want them to respect your rights" did you not understand?
I had about five or six specific questions about your word use. Philosophical issues can often boil down to issues of lexical semantics.

Still, now you propose that only respect of rights leads to morality? Without empathy?
But, then that person can give you whatever rights they want to give you, without properly considering you.

That is not morality, it takes more than one person to decide what's fair.

Quote:
Respect is a positive feeling or action shown towards someone or something considered important, or held in high esteem or regard; it conveys a sense of admiration for good or valuable qualities; and it is also the process of honoring someone by exhibiting care, concern, or consideration for their needs or feelings.
Fancy that.

Quote:
Empathy is the capacity to understand or feel what another person is experiencing from within their frame of reference, that is, the capacity to place oneself in another's position. There are many definitions for empathy that encompass a broad range of emotional and cognitive states.
If you respect someone without having empathy, then you can't consider their needs or feelings properly, and thus your respect wouldn't be real respect but only a broken inhumane facsimile of it. No?

Either way, you will see given animals demonstrate "respect," that is as obvious as observations of hierarchy and caste (treating those in their caste as equal) in animals.

And there are many aspects of respect that have little to do with ideas of objective morals but are thoroughly understood as important subjective morals, such as bowing to elders.
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Old 12-18-2018, 08:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
But, then that person can give you whatever rights they want to give you, without properly considering you.
No they cant. Not if they want me to respect their rights.
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Old 12-18-2018, 08:25 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
No they cant. Not if they want me to respect their rights.
"...if they want..." the theists (especially fundamentalists) will not like you very much with a line like that.

Isn't there supposed to be some "ultimate 'more real than thought' grounding" for that?

Personal preference doesn't seem "more real than thought."

Still, a human is a type of animal, like a dog is a type of animal, like a bug is a type of animal.
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Old 12-18-2018, 11:31 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
Animals think subjectively.
You don't have a clue what any animal actually thinks.
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Old 12-19-2018, 12:01 AM
 
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Carl Jung:

“We have, therefore, two kinds of thinking: directed thinking, and dreaming or fantasy-thinking. The former operates with speech elements for the purpose of communication, and is difficult and exhausting; the latter is effortless, working as it were spontaneously, with the contents ready to hand, and guided by unconscious motives. The one produces innovations and adaptation, copies reality, and tries to act upon it; the other turns away from reality, sets free subjective tendencies, and, as regards adaptation, is unproductive” (para. 20).


I would prefer to say that the 2 ways of thinking are objective and subjective

Myers–Briggs Type Indicator

Last edited by granpa; 12-19-2018 at 12:10 AM..
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Old 12-19-2018, 12:13 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,850,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
We are humans
The world is made up of things that are animal, vegetable or mineral. If we are not animals, which of the other two do you claim that we are?
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Old 12-19-2018, 12:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
The world is made up of things that are animal, vegetable or mineral. If we are not animals, which of the other two do you claim that we are?
"Made of" ≠ "are"

//www.city-data.com/forum/53874804-post7.html
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Old 12-19-2018, 12:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
The world is made up of things that are animal, vegetable or mineral. If we are not animals, which of the other two do you claim that we are?
Why do you distinguish between living things and nonliving things? Aren't living things made of non-living matter?

You distinguish between them because life has emerged as an emergent property from nonliving matter. In the same way humans have emerged from the Animal Kingdom. We are something entirely new
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