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If I talk about the Bible at all, I say what it actually says.
Not once have I misrepresented the printed words.
Now, I get the fact that far too many Christians will bend over backwards trying to defend an indefensible position because the Bible has to be right - even when what the Bible says is flagrantly immoral.
And I get the fact that far too many Christians like to use post hoc rationalizations by claiming, "That's not what the Bible really means!" or they'll call it a metaphor because that's easier than facing down the prospect of taking it literally even when they take the rest of it literally.
"No, evolution is bunk - Adam and Eve really existed. But God killing the first born of Egypt, nah, that was just a metaphor representing God's rage. Yeah. Something like that."
The irony is that I'm the last person to torture the Bible. I argue against it based on what is actually written. It's Christians who tend to torture the hell out of it. For instance:
"God didn't send two bears to rip apart 42 children. No! They were older than that. Yeah. Teenagers. No, actually they were in their 20s. They were technically youths. And they were like a street gang. And they had weapons. And they threatened Elijiah!"
Only very modern Bibles started playing semantic games to hide the truth of what the Bible says. "Little children" was changed to "youths." The word "slave" was changed to "servant" and on and on. The mere fact that modern Bible publishers are trying to erase these terms is proof enough of the Bible's guilt at being immoral. Why else do it, then?
Modern Biblical scholars are now even trying to say that God really isn't omnipotent - he's only powerful within the bounds of logic just to get around all of those paradoxes like, "Can God make a rock so heavy even he can't lift it?"
I find it hysterical that things atheists have been criticizing for decades are now suddenly getting a rework as if publishing new Bibles with different terminology actually changes anything.
And then you accuse me of torturing the Bible? Name one false thing I've said about the Bible.
I'll wait.
Spot On. We saw that with Mike 555 ignoring what the Bible actually says - that Faith can enable you to toss Redwoods into the sea, though it fails at making twiglet arrows bounce off the Fundashield, and argues his own Take -Jesus says nowhere that he'll save you from being shot. And picking the bit about the sons of Zebedee being killed but ignoring that Jesus offered them an out. "You want to sit beside me in heaven? Are you willing to take one terminal for the team?" and they say:"Sure, no problem".
Of course we (they and us) see and know that Christian faith offers no protection at all, but every miraculous bullet stopped by the pocket Bible, every divine message not to get on the 'plane that crashes, every 'phone call offering a job he prayed for last night (we don't hear that it was actually a fortnight ago and every day he'd been phoning for jobs and prayed to ram it home every night and One finally called back) and indeed, every success is waved about as proof that God Exists, Jesus is Lord and The Bible is true, cover to cover.
Why would they expect that we won't flag up the epic fails and pre- empt (not by much, it seems) every effort to screw some propaganda out of what should have been a Public self -criticism? "Yeah, we screwed that kid up and it's our desire to ram our religion down every throat in the globe, nobody being protected from our interference even by Law, that's the culprit, here. Yeah, we have to clean our act up".
Nothing like that. Instead they want to act like this poor evolutionary failure, thanks to their religion messing with his mid, earns them a medal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude
Sadly, Chau exhibited all the negative hallmarks of fundamentalism: a profound lack of awareness of reality, exacerbated by natural stupidity, and eager gob-swallowing of bible-babble.
Don't forget the one most often overlooked but the most dangerous, the most very dangerous, the most terminally dangerous:
"To Hell with Man -made law".
Quote:
What's more sad than his stupid death, is there are fundies out there now appointing him a martyr and hero to the "great commission."
And they walk and post and vote and breed among us.
Don't lose the Faith, dude Even with ...well...you know...we could still win this one, New Pew review and votes to go with it. Turn the US around and you turn the world around.
There was a clip (from a Film "The Anchorman") "America is not great". But (I haven't seen the film) but it was underlying what he said. The Good and the great is still there. Also saw some vid-talks by Americans in the UK - what was good about Britain. It's there for us too, even if the recent Blips make us wonder.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 11-27-2018 at 01:47 AM..
You know, like 120 posts later I still have to explain myself, especially to Mike, what the title of this thread really means. Mike spent the first three or four posts trying to convince me that Jesus wasn't imaginary; that he really lived. I get that. I acknowledged a Jesus character probably lived and was crucified; I mean the legend had to start somewhere.
But the Jesus of the title--the son of God who WAS God, who did all these miracles and resurrected on the 3rd day and then ascended into heaven and all the rest--THIS is the Jesus that is imaginary, that doesn't exist today up in heaven seated at the right hand of God and all that dogmatic baloney.
Christians today don't know what to believe about Jesus. They pray to him. They believe he answers prayers but then 95% of their prayers go unanswered. 5% appear to get answered but that's just smoke-and mirrors--random chance.
Everybody should know by now about this large study--which is just one of many--that all found prayer has no effect on outcome. But here is one again in case somebody missed it:
Jesus simply doesn't answer prayers. Why? Because he doesn't exist today, that's why. He might have existed 2000 years ago but he was crucified, died and....that's the end of him, except for this gigantic mythology that has grown up around him.
It's ironic that Mike acknowledges that Jesus said, "Hey, you guys are going to be tortured and killed for my sake but take heart because great is your reward in heaven."
Thanks a lot, Jesus. I suffer, I get shot full of arrows for you and I've got a big fat reward waiting for me in heaven. Thanks one hell of a lot!
It's a great way to structure a religion. No way for corrupt churchmen to demonstrate a payoff here on earth so make the sheep believe they get their hot fudge sundae at a table in the sky and a personal audience with Jesus who will be waiting there to greet them with a gold spoon---after they give their lives for him.
And the Christians buy it!!!!!!!!!!!
Of course they do, because all that matters is what they want to believe. What is actually so means nothing. Shrina noted what I noted right when I first dipped my toe into the murky apologetics waters and was exemplified in Mike555 reading out not what the Bible actually says but what he would Like it to say - the "Ghost Bible". It's like they have this mental Bible in their head that says it like they need it, so why should they ever need to read the one in the hotel drawer?
And now (so Shirina tells me - and I'd take her word for it, even if she told me Grey Aliens powersawed the blocks for the pyramids) They apparently decided to publish the "Ghost Bible" as the real one. NIRV ("New Interpreted Remastered Version) and we can save five years' worth of street lighting with the Bibleburning bonfires that will ensue.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 11-27-2018 at 02:13 AM..
Until the point that we can be sure we will not sicken them with our diseases, I think it's best to just drop some satellite tvs and radios to destroy those Natives' primitive ways of life. If we want there stuff I'm sure there won't be any stoping the armies.
There's is a case in point because they do not build statues. I wonder what religion they have... Probably something very superstitious and lacking in understanding of nature.
Until the point that we can be sure we will not sicken them with our diseases, I think it's best to just drop some satellite tvs and radios to destroy those Natives' primitive ways of life. If we want there stuff I'm sure there won't be any stoping the armies.
There's is a case in point because they do not build statues. I wonder what religion they have... Probably something very superstitious and lacking in understanding of nature.
Not really. As profound as saying you will never die in a car accident if you never get inside or anywhere near a car. But what the dead dude did is akin to stealing a car and going on a high speed chase with the cops.
The dude made two serious errors of judgement. #1 he broke the law by illegally traveling to the island. #2 he ignored the well documented reputation of these islanders to kill trespassers. I say its much better that he died than potentially spreading disease that would wipe out these island people.
Until the point that we can be sure we will not sicken them with our diseases, I think it's best to just drop some satellite tvs and radios to destroy those Natives' primitive ways of life. If we want there stuff I'm sure there won't be any stoping the armies.
Why not just leave them alone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth
There's is a case in point because they do not build statues. I wonder what religion they have... Probably something very superstitious and lacking in understanding of nature.
Spot On. We saw that with Mike 555 ignoring what the Bible actually says - that Faith can enable you to toss Redwoods into the sea, though it fails at making twiglet arrows bounce off the Fundashield, and argues his own Take -Jesus says nowhere that he'll save you from being shot. And picking the bit about the sons of Zebedee being killed but ignoring that Jesus offered them an out. "You want to sit beside me in heaven? Are you willing to take one terminal for the team?" and they say:"Sure, no problem".
You're making the same mistake that many fundamentalist Christians make by taking everything it says overly literally. While there is much that is literal in the Bible there is also much metaphorical language. Matthew 17:20 and 21:21 which you distort, speak of faith moving mountains/cast into the sea in 21:21. The language is obviously metaphorical or proverbial for overcoming great difficulties as in the case of Isaiah 40:4, 49:11; 54:10; 1 Corinthians 13:2.
Isaiah 40:3 A voice is calling, "Clear the way for the LORD in the wilderness; Make smooth in the desert a highway for our God. 4]"Let every valley be lifted up, And every mountain and hill be made low; And let the rough ground become a plain, And the rugged terrain a broad valley;
Isaiah 49:11"I will make all My mountains a road, And My highways will be raised up.
Isaiah 54:10"For the mountains may be removed and the hills may shake, But My lovingkindness will not be removed from you, And My covenant of peace will not be shaken," Says the LORD who has compassion on you.
1 Corinthians 13:2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
And in the case of 1 Corinthians 13:2 no has ever received a gift to literally remove literal mountains. Paul was speaking in a proverbial sense.
Nor did I say anything at all about the sons of Zebedee, only one of which was martyred. John is reputed to have died of old age. James was the one who was martyred.
Since, like Thrillobyte, you seem to be claiming that Jesus made a promise that his disciples would be protected from harm, all you have to do is post the verse where he supposedly made such a claim. And Mark 16:9-20 is regarded by scholars as not being authentic, so you can't legitimately use anything contained in that passage to argue your case. But Jesus made no such promise, and as I've shown, what Matthew 24:9 and John 16:2 say argues against any such claim that Jesus promised that his disciples would be protected from harm.
You can continue to insist that Jesus was speaking literally about being able to literally move a literal mountain with faith, but to do so makes you just as mistaken as fundamentalist Christians who insist that the Genesis creation accounts are literal.
Of course they do, because all that matters is what they want to believe. What is actually so means nothing. Shrina noted what I noted right when I first dipped my toe into the murky apologetics waters and was exemplified in Mike555 reading out not what the Bible actually says but what he would Like it to say - the "Ghost Bible". It's like they have this mental Bible in their head that says it like they need it, so why should they ever need to read the one in the hotel drawer?
Really? I quoted Matthew 24:9 and John 16:2, both of which show that Jesus, far from promising that his disciples would not be killed, said that they would be. So which of us is ignoring what the Bible actually says? You are every bit as dishonest as you say Christians are.
Sounds heartless but in a way I'm glad he was killed. Christians need to see firsthand what happens to them when they rely on Jesus to protect them. One journalist describes him as "self-important, arrogant, deluded, foolish, and a pest".
The media might never have picked up this story and the Chau's death would have been for nothing. But shining a spotlight on the failure of Jesus to save his own proves beyond any shadow of doubt to the entire world that missionaries in hostile territories cannot rely on Jesus to ride to their rescue as so many believe he will.
I hope this is a wakeup call for the thousands of young Christian men and women who are contemplating going into missionary work. I hope they take off the rose-colored spectacles and say, "Crap! Jesus promised he would protect us and he didn't lift a finger to help John Chau. What am I doing thinking I can follow after John? What am doing in the Christian religion, period!"
This is one item Christians in here will not step forward and comment on because what can they say to circumvent a bald failure of Jesus?
This post is idiotic. Any one will die if they get shot by arrows or a gun. Athiests cant even understand that fact.
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Even with ...well...you know...we could still win this one, New Pew review and votes to go with it. Turn the US around and you turn the world around. 
