Dead Missionary Proves Beyond Shadow of Doubt Jesus is Imaginary (Muslims, verse)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Now you've gone and done it - aggravated the invisible pink unicorn of mockery and denigration.
Rainbow unicorn farts will plague you till your dyeing days.
or understand what humans are. I think you have many great points but bull horning logic in a pen of chimps won't change chimps from being chimps. if anything, they throw their poop at you. It really doesn't matter what a chimps perspective on a statement of belief about god. they don't care. we have to get them moving forward and keep them from hurting themselves and others. What I believe has nothing to do with it sometimes.
But, some of those chimps are "awake". how do we not blow them away, or more importantly, "scare them away"? which is distinctly different than the "I won't be silenced". as soon as it becomes about "I am not going to be silenced" its over. not using a bull horn and not being silenced are two different things.
IMO we should talk about how the universe works, openly and honestly, and let beliefs based on that form themselves. "beliefs" based on science tend to self correct themselves when new information is found. beliefs based on "atheist/theist perspectives" tend to stagnate and injure people around them.
Carrying your "chimps" analogy one step further: while I certainly don't advocate people coming to Jesus Christ for that salvation baloney fundamentalists peddle, my actual point was that if a chimp is acting up, rattling the cage, attacking other chimps unprovoked and you give him a banana and then he settles down into that bliss of peeling the banana and eating it or smoking it or however he chooses to consume it the banana has done a good thing, right? It has taken a crazy chimp and made him into a harmless one. I advocate using Jesus to do that same thing--pacify someone who is going off the rails mentally and might open fire into a crowd killing a dozen people. Jesus can often stop this kind of thing. Doesn't matter that Jesus is imaginary. Just the person thinking Jesus is saving him from himself is good for society. In that respect I think a Jesus belief is a good thing.
You mention further down about parents indoctrinating children. I am vehemently opposed to that. Most of these kids grow up screwed up beyond belief such as this poor child who looks like he's been programmed by T.D. Jakes:
The people who can most benefit from latching onto Jesus are drunks, dopeheads, thiefs, robbers, people contemplating suicide, people harming others, and most of all people who are so disillusioned by life that they are sinking into the mire and need a life raft to grab onto. These are the people who I advocate grabbing onto Jesus and holding on for dear life. Doesn't matter if Jesus is all in their minds, as long as they believe he is speaking to them and it quiets their turbulent souls then I am all for using Jesus as a pacifier. In the long run it helps them and protects us.
Carrying your "chimps" analogy one step further: while I certainly don't advocate people coming to Jesus Christ for that salvation baloney fundamentalists peddle, my actual point was that if a chimp is acting up, rattling the cage, attacking other chimps unprovoked and you give him a banana and then he settles down into that bliss of peeling the banana and eating it or smoking it or however he chooses to consume it the banana has done a good thing, right? It has taken a crazy chimp and made him into a harmless one. I advocate using Jesus to do that same thing--pacify someone who is going off the rails mentally and might open fire into a crowd killing a dozen people. Jesus can often stop this kind of thing. Doesn't matter that Jesus is imaginary. Just the person thinking Jesus is saving him from himself is good for society. In that respect I think a Jesus belief is a good thing.
You mention further down about parents indoctrinating children. I am vehemently opposed to that. Most of these kids grow up screwed up beyond belief such as this poor child who looks like he's been programmed by T.D. Jakes:
The people who can most benefit from latching onto Jesus are drunks, dopeheads, thiefs, robbers, people contemplating suicide, people harming others, and most of all people who are so disillusioned by life that they are sinking into the mire and need a life raft to grab onto. These are the people who I advocate grabbing onto Jesus and holding on for dear life. Doesn't matter if Jesus is all in their minds, as long as they believe he is speaking to them and it quiets their turbulent souls then I am all for using Jesus as a pacifier. In the long run it helps them and protects us.
... spot on ... almost exactly how I see it.
I don't know how i feel about "using jesus" as much as "letting jesus happen."
Yes, bad parents misuse religion. religion does not misuse parents. Thats a fact that I cannot get around. No matter how many times I tried, I keep getting back to "parents misused religion". I had theist parents and they did their job first. (another chapter in a book)
Thats why I propose teaching to how the universe works "content" first and "atheism perspective" second. teaching to "how the universe works" will self correct itself while allowing the people that need life lines grab one. "jusus pills" come and go, but the universe keeps working the way it works.
At least the life line tends to be real. for example, the claim "The universe loves you". it most certainly can be shown that volumes of the universe do love. It becomes a question of how much, but its empirical, some of it does. Then, how do we wrap that up in a palatable form where the person doesn't choke on it?
the truth is like the sun trill, stare at it and you go blind. but a thick pair of sunglasses and some sunscreen? its the giver of life. ZZ Tops ... they come in two classes ... go out and get yourself a pair of "jesus sunglasses". and jesus 50 block.
There is no punishment, Thrill, just remorse, regret, and/or any unresolvable guilt over unremediable hurt or genuine irreversible harm your willful actions may have wreaked upon others.
Which is a very damaging approach from a mental health perspective. I do not think repentance should be ongoing regret or remorse and no guilt should ever be considered unredeemable (assuming that is the word you meant as unremediable is not a word that I know of).
Rather the potential negative effects on others of our actions and even existence should be taken as a default norm - and our goal should be to minimise it as much as possible. Where we fail we should not be inclined towards remorse, regret, or guilt - but to progress, learning and acceptance. We should be compassionate to ourselves - in other words - as much as to others.
Self compassion is not espoused as a concept often enough I think. And one of my current favourite podcasters signs off his broadcasts every week with the line "Be compassionate to yourselves and others".
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
This is the result of the typical and generally ubiquitous worldly or carnal focus on the content of human consciousness. You demand that any evidence of God's influence on human consciousness be reflected in the accuracy of the worldly or carnal content which has zip to do with the spiritual content and impact that is God's concern.
That just sounds like more of the typical wishy washy hand waving that is done to explain away a lack of evidence. Rather than admit to having no evidence - some perceived slight is thrown at the expectation of it, its form, or even its existence. As if anyone demanding evidence for your claims is somehow at fault from the outset.
That is a charlatan move that alas is quite common from everything from snake oil salesmen to cold readers to faith healers. To slight the mark with a lack that in fact the charlatan themselves alone holds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
You take no significance from the widespread acceptance and impact of these myths and legends on human society and the concept of spirituality itself.
Well no - that is absolutely not true at all. I/we take much significance from it. We just do not take _yours_ from it. And us not finding the same significance you imagine is there - is not at all an indication we take none at all.
In fact I could not place more significance than I do on the fact we tell stories to ourselves - what those stories are - and how they affect it. The more I study deeply into meditation, hypnosis, placebo, mind control, love, suffering, mental health and more - the more and more I see the relevance of us being a story telling animal and the effect and significance of that on us individually and as a society.
The only real problem I see is you -
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
The virtual ubiquity of spiritual concern across millennia, eras, generations and cultures speaks to God's influence.
- flinging the word "sprituality" at that blindly and then leaping from there to "god" as a complete non-sequitur. I do not object per se with the word "spirituality". I use it for these concerns myself in fact. But I do not append the metaphysical and supernatural nonsense to the word you do as a matter of course. The gravitas of the word "spiritual" itself is being used in lieu of actual substance to support your views. The word itself has become powerful to us - and you are drawing on that power to replace any requirement for actual evidence, reasoning, or argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
It is about fulfilling our species' collective purpose in existing.
You have not shown there even _is_ a purpose for existing. And thinking there is one is what led the missionary (remember what this thread is about at all?????) to put the lives of other people at risk to fulfil his agenda.
Because he believed these people had a purpose and an after life - when in fact there is no evidence that they have any purpose but their own and any life but the one they currently lead which will end soon - he felt entirely justified in taking actions that could end their lives prematurely. What absolutely arrogance and hubris his religion installed in him therefore - to think himself justified in prematurely ending the only life they likely are actually ever going to have!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
The problem never has been that we are incapable of doing what Jesus achieved but that we were not evolved enough spiritually to even try.
Which ignores the challenge from my previous post - predictably enough - to name a single moral or ethical action he achieved that has not been achieved by others or is in any way precluded us. You can throw out claims we are incapable of achieving what he did - but you have not listed a single thing as an example.
I don't know how i feel about "using jesus" as much as "letting jesus happen."
Yes, bad parents misuse religion. religion does not misuse parents. Thats a fact that I cannot get around. No matter how many times I tried, I keep getting back to "parents misused religion". I had theist parents and they did their job first. (another chapter in a book)
Thats why I propose teaching to how the universe works "content" first and "atheism perspective" second. teaching to "how the universe works" will self correct itself while allowing the people that need life lines grab one. "jusus pills" come and go, but the universe keeps working the way it works.
At least the life line tends to be real. for example, the claim "The universe loves you". it most certainly can be shown that volumes of the universe do love. It becomes a question of how much, but its empirical, some of it does. Then, how do we wrap that up in a palatable form where the person doesn't choke on it?
the truth is like the sun trill, stare at it and you go blind. but a thick pair of sunglasses and some sunscreen? its the giver of life. ZZ Tops ... they come in two classes ... go out and get yourself a pair of "jesus sunglasses". and jesus 50 block.
Yes, but how does an imaginary being "just happen"? There is no Jesus today. He died 2000 years ago and then was mythologized just as Mithra was 1000 years earlier.
Now I learn in a docu from Tom Harpur entitled "Pagan Christ" that the entire story of Jesus can be found in earlier sources which proves that the Jesus legend had been fabricated from bits and pieces of previous legends of other gods. In other words, the entire story found in the gospels was a patchwork jimmied together by creative writers eager to promote this new man/god that gradually took on the name Yeshua.
So zealous parents are feeding a lie to their children and then the children grow up and either flip out psychologically or become so entrenched in the Jesus mythos that they can never shake it. I think this is exactly what happened to John Chau. He never would have turned out as he did if his mother wasn't this nutcase entrenched in Christianity up to her eyeballs.
Yes, but how does an imaginary being "just happen"? There is no Jesus today. He died 2000 years ago and then was mythologized just as Mithra was 1000 years earlier.
Now I learn in a docu from Tom Harpur entitled "Pagan Christ" that the entire story of Jesus can be found in earlier sources which proves that the Jesus legend had been fabricated from bits and pieces of previous legends of other gods. In other words, the entire story found in the gospels was a patchwork jimmied together by creative writers eager to promote this new man/god that gradually took on the name Yeshua.
So zealous parents are feeding a lie to their children and then the children grow up and either flip out psychologically or become so entrenched in the Jesus mythos that they can never shake it. I think this is exactly what happened to John Chau. He never would have turned out as he did if his mother wasn't this nutcase entrenched in Christianity up to her eyeballs.
"just happens" is a little tricky. I don't really know. I see one group of people take over another group of people and use religion many times. "religion" becomes a geralize word for the weapon religion. or in this case "the medicine religion."
as a soldier i would use the weapon of the times. as a person i would use the medicine of the time. most of the time, lmao,no pun intended, its just using status quo.
yes, bad parents do that to children. we have to look at numbers. I don't know them. but religion isn't the number thing rammed in children trill. and if we look at hurt children we have to looked at children that where helped. My parents were theist. i was atheist by third grade. other then the cigarette burns while saying "praise jesus" I turned out pretty good. And my mom didn't smoke. religion helped mom my trudge through and keep focused.
can you apply rules you do with chau to anybody crossing borders?
"just happens" is a little tricky. I don't really know. I see one group of people take over another group of people and use religion many times. "religion" becomes a geralize word for the weapon religion. or in this case "the medicine religion."
as a soldier i would use the weapon of the times. as a person i would use the medicine of the time. most of the time, lmao,no pun intended, its just using status quo.
yes, bad parents do that to children. we have to look at numbers. I don't know them. but religion isn't the number thing rammed in children trill. and if we look at hurt children we have to looked at children that where helped. My parents were theist. i was atheist by third grade. other then the cigarette burns while saying "praise jesus" I turned out pretty good. And my mom didn't smoke. religion helped mom my trudge through and keep focused.
can you apply rules you do with chau to anybody crossing borders?
There are only two groups of people who benefit from Christianity:
Losers and opportunists.
Half of all Christians were atheists or agnostics prior to "getting saved". They were living a godless life style doing alcohol, drugs, sex, thieving, murdering--the whole nine yards. Something in them snapped. Living this kind of pointless life on the edge can break a person mentally, psychologically emotionally and everything else. Jesus becomes a way of escape, a "thing" to commit one's life to--a safer form of all the things they previously were. So instead of wasting their lives on the former they choose to waste it on the latter.
Jesus is not a real person, he's an icon--an avatar that a lost soul can have imaginary conversations with and believe this "thing" is actually listening and helping him through whatever troubles he's got. Like I said,
"Jesus---you can’t see him, you can’t hear him, you can’t smell him, you can’t feel him. Thus, Jesus only exists in your imagination---he is not “real” in any normal sense of the word".
Now the other half of Christians grew up in a Christian home. Some went on to get married, have children, get stable jobs and become pillars in their community. These are "good" Christians in the sense they contribute something to society. They're a stabilizing influence in this crazy world and I give them credit for that. The fact they're praying to someone who does exist and therefore cannot answer them, cannot advise them, cannot help them in any way, shape or form is irrelevant. As long as these people believe Jesus is there for them that's all that counts, right?
So in sum half of Christians are former wastrels who were "driven" into Jesus' arms by horrible life circumstances. If Jesus turned a formerly dangerous person life around and made him docile and harmless I'm all for Jesus. As long as we are clear this is not a real somebody who actually helps you. This is how the dictum "The Lord helps those who help themselves" came about. Jesus doesn't do a thing except inspire a person to start doing good instead of harm on the belief they're going to get pie in the sky someday when they die. Powerful stuff and a strong motivator for anyone who hasn't got a pot to pee in.
The second group are the opportunists--those who have found a way to earn a buck off gullible Christians--preachers, authors, businessmen--anyone who uses "Praise Jesus" to get into your pocketbook. They are reprehensible, of course but give them credit for finding a clever way to make millions without having to put a day into going to university university or getting an honest job at regular wage.
And of course there are all sorts of "flavors" in between like many who hang out here.
You have decency, objectivity, and, Yes, even love that is missing from your attack dog so-called best thinker, Arq.
Monumentus is as much an attack dog for Arq as you are an attack dog against him.
By the way, anything "indecent" is supposed to be reported.
And I don't know how much love you get from attack dog fundamentalists like Jeffbase and Baptistfundie, but I'd have to say that fundamentalists and liberal mysticists think of themselves as the "best thinkers" too.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
religion helped mom my trudge through and keep focused.
