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Well argued. But I feel that this is one where appeal to unknowns can field a point. We don't know that such a thing can be impossible. After all the way the world works is that something does not come from nothing and Life does not come from non-life (which is to say the DNA mechanism that transforms bio -material into life had to come from somewhere). But science argues that this must have happened but cannot prove it.
Well argued. But I feel that this is one where appeal to unknowns can field a point. We don't know that such a thing can be impossible. After all the way the world works is that something does not come from nothing and Life does not come from non-life (which is to say the DNA mechanism that transforms bio -material into life had to come from somewhere). But science argues that this must have happened but cannot prove it.
Similarly to claim miracles without evidence is valueless.
But we have the apparently historical record of the Gospels that such a thing did - just once - happen, and even explains why. Thus, I argue that the historical record itself is not reliable. That does then leave the claim without value, as you say.
True, but what we do have is a history of unsupportable claims attributed to hundreds of other mystics of all different faiths. There's no reasonable argument in favor of only one of all these being right. More logical would be that either many of the claims are true, in which case these aren't actually miracles but might be done by many people; or else that they're all false. In the case of the latter there IS a supporting history throughout many cultures of embellishing at best, and flat out tell tales at the extreme, on behalf of both historic and mythic figures.
This doesn't constitute solid evidence but putting it all togethet, well...The odds just aren't good that Jesus happened to be the one and only worker of actual bona fide miracles, from among all the possibilities. And if we openheartedly believe the Jesus miracles then why don't we believe miracles of other faiths? Because of where we were born and raised, usually.
Walking through walls is an easy metaphor to understand. Walking on water isn't coming to me so quickly, though if I give it some thought, I'll find it.
I say so because the Bible says so. The Bible settles it, not me.
The Gospel according to Bapfun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
If that's true, why do you keep denying the truth?
Now you are being crafty and dishonest. You may disagree with my conclusions, but to suggest that I have given no valid reasons for my doubts, and to ignore that your beliefs are based on ignoring those doubts, is simply dishonest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
See? I toldya it'd be fun..
And don't knock Krishna!
It's a better thread than I was expecting. And I've always had a soft spot for the little blue -skinned twit.
Wrongly. It is defined as a hypothesis. Sometimes with support - like the Higgs -Boson, Black holes or relativity, until science validated it - but not faith. Certainly not the kind of faith that is Faith: believing a hypothesis as reliable true and rejecting, dismissing and ignoring any evidence against it. If evidence turned up in Archaeon rocks that DNA appeared on land and was washed into the sea later on (life appeared in the sea when the land was barren - so says the evidence in the rocks) science would not ignore it.
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Originally Posted by JerZ
True, but what we do have is a history of unsupportable claims attributed to hundreds of other mystics of all different faiths. There's no reasonable argument in favor of only one of all these being right. More logical would be that either many of the claims are true, in which case these aren't actually miracles but might be done by many people; or else that they're all false. In the case of the latter there IS a supporting history throughout many cultures of embellishing at best, and flat out tell tales at the extreme, on behalf of both historic and mythic figures.
This doesn't constitute solid evidence but putting it all togethet, well...The odds just aren't good that Jesus happened to be the one and only worker of actual bona fide miracles, from among all the possibilities. And if we openheartedly believe the Jesus miracles then why don't we believe miracles of other faiths? Because of where we were born and raised, usually.
Yes indeed. But then that lots of different Flood legends exist does not of itself mean that they are all false with no historical basis. The Biblical Flood rests on its' own credibility - not that any or all the others are either mythical or based on some real event.
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Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
Walking through walls is an easy metaphor to understand. Walking on water isn't coming to me so quickly, though if I give it some thought, I'll find it.
That's a good thought, and i won't even try to guess why it was needed. Just to have some miracles, like stilling the storm. Maybe.
I guess it is laughable to some whether they believe it not; it makes good fodder.
Well, it would make me want to visit earth in physical form!
If you're going to use your godly
powers....good way to use 'em...not 'twit' worthy...I call that 'genius'. I mean, dude, come on!
Well, it would make me want to visit earth in physical form!
If you're going to use your godly
powers....good way to use 'em...not 'twit' worthy...I call that 'genius'. I mean, dude, come on!
It's too bad Christianity is the only belief system we can do this with. When I first joined the forum I asked why Catholics worshipped Mother Mary and if they really believed in her appearances. Those questions were deemed bashing a faith.
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