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Some have said none of that was real.
Do you think he did that? Do you think it's possible?
Could man follow his example and simply advance enough to do such things?
Do others do similar things...like in India, so, it's not special to Jesus alone?
Thanks, should be a fun talk.
Some have said none of that was real.
Do you think he did that? Do you think it's possible?
Could man follow his example and simply advance enough to do such things?
Do others do similar things...like in India, so, it's not special to Jesus alone?
Thanks, should be a fun talk.
Metaphor or fabrications by someone to give credence to claims of Jesus' divinity or a misinterpretation, in some way, of actual events. Unless Jesus had some actual knowledge of how to work within the laws that govern matter in a way that the general population did/does not possess, which I highly doubt.
Some have said none of that was real.
Do you think he did that? Do you think it's possible?
Could man follow his example and simply advance enough to do such things?
Do others do similar things...like in India, so, it's not special to Jesus alone?
Thanks, should be a fun talk.
He may have actually existed, but all the stories and thing such as walking on water, turning water to wine and other far out there events are all just fables and stories. There are dozens of main religions in the world and hundreds of small ones. Almost all of them were written and invented around stories and myths like this.
It's all just legend, although some people obviously take these religions as factual and believe everything quite literally.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_walking_on_water
Still, some scholars have held the view that while this event took place, it was not miraculous: Albert Schweitzer, for example, suggested that the disciples saw Jesus walking on the shore, but were confused by high wind and darkness; some scholars who accept this "misperception thesis" argue that Mark originally wrote that Jesus walked on the seashore rather than on the shore, and that John had a more accurate version
I have no difficulty believing the miracles of Jesus literally happened as recorded in Scripture. Still, my faith remains in God and Jesus, not in the earthly miracles. (Peter also walked on the water, but, my faith did not shift from Jesus to Peter).
Of course, metaphors do exist in Scripture. For example, Jesus literally raised at least three dead people (Paul raised one). But, when Jesus said, "You will see even greater miracles than these," I don't believe He was saying, "You will raise even more people from the grave." Rather, He was metaphorically saying, "In the future, you will see many raised from eternal Spiritual death, to eternal Spiritual life" - which is a far greater miracle.
Ultimately, one must ask, "What is a "miracle" to God?" -- I believe "Nothing is impossible for God," thus, "My faith rests comfortably in the power of God, not the wisdom of men."
Some have said none of that was real.
Do you think he did that? Do you think it's possible?
Could man follow his example and simply advance enough to do such things?
Do others do similar things...like in India, so, it's not special to Jesus alone?
Thanks, should be a fun talk.
This touches on the 'Miracle' problem. It's one where i think Atheists may field a false argument. Some of you may have heard my view on this - You cannot dismiss these claims of miracles because "Miracles don't happen". Sure they don't - that's why they're Miracles.
If Jesus was given the power to do magical stuff to show that he was divine, then of course he would do crap that people normally didn't do. He was a one -off.
So 'Miracles don't happen" is not a valid argument (Lordie, what an apologist Theism loses in me). But evidence of fabrication is.
Evidence of fabrication goes through the gospels like corruption through the Catholic church. Thus, when you get to a contradiction, the smart money goes on fabrication, not on 'Matthew thought that Jesus walking through walls on Resurrection night wasn't worth mentioning."
The walking on water was a puzzle. Because it does not fit any of the predictive patterns.
(k) Synoptic original. In Mark, Matthew and Luke, not in John.
(j) In Matthew and Luke, Not Mark or John. "Q" material
(v) in Matthew and Mark, not Luke or John. 'Great Omission' material (M or P material as i called it.
But it's in all the gospels other than Luke. How could that happen? I have a Theory (floating stories) which i won't go into here, but that it isn't in Luke (given OTHER compelling evidence of fabrication) means that it is an invention, because 'Luke thought it wasn't worth mentioning' Does Not Wash. No more than there being no Transfiguration in John 'because he didn't think it important'.
Thus both those miracles are fabrications, not because they make no sense, but because some of the gospels had never heard of it.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 11-26-2018 at 10:41 AM..
Some have said none of that was real.
Do you think he did that? Do you think it's possible?
Could man follow his example and simply advance enough to do such things?
Do others do similar things...like in India, so, it's not special to Jesus alone?
Thanks, should be a fun talk.
Yamaka pātihāriya
The miracle of the "double appearances”. When the Buddha laid down a rule forbidding the exercise of supernatural powers by monks - following on the miracle performed by Pindola Bhāradvāja - the heretics went about saying that henceforth they would perform no miracles except with the Buddha. Bimbisāra reported this to the Buddha, who at once accepted the challenge, explaining that the rule was for his disciples and did not apply to himself. He, therefore, went to Sāvatthi, the place where all Buddhas perform the Miracle. In reply to Pasenadi, the Buddha said he would perform the miracle at the foot of the Gandamba tree on the full moon day of Asālha [in July]. This was in the seventh year after the Enlightenment (DA.i.57).
The heretics therefore uprooted all mango trees for one league around, but, on the promised day, the Buddha went to the king's garden, accepted the mango offered by Ganda, and caused a marvellous tree to sprout from its seed. The people, discovering what the heretics had done, attacked them, and they had to flee helter-skelter. It was during this flight that Pūrana Kassapa committed suicide. The multitude, assembled to witness the miracle, extended to a distance of thirty six leagues. The Buddha created a jewelled walk in the air by the side of the Gandamba. When the Buddha's disciples knew what was in his mind, several of them offered to perform miracles and so refute the insinuations of the heretics. Among such disciples were Gharanī, Culla Anātthapindika, Cīrā, Cunda, Uppalavannā and Moggallāna.
The Buddha refused their offers and related the Kanhausabha and Nandivisāla Jātakas. Then, standing on the jewelled walk, he proceeded to perform the Yamaka-pātihāriya (Twin Miracle), so called because it consisted in the appearance of phenomena of opposite character in pairs - e.g., producing flames from the upper part of the body and a stream of water from the lower, and then alternatively. Flames of fire and streams of water also proceeded alternatively from the right side of his body and from the left. DA.l.57; DhA.iii.214f. explains how this was done. From every pore of his body rays of six colours darted forth, upwards to the realm of Brahmā and downwards to the edge of the Cakkavāla. The Miracle lasted for a long while, and as the Buddha walked up and down the jewelled terrace he preached to the multitude from time to time. It is said that he performed miracles and preached sermons during sixteen days, according to the various dispositions of those present in the assembly. At the conclusion of the Miracle, the Buddha, following the example of his predecessors, made his way, in three strides, to Tāvatimsa, there to preach the Abhidhamma Pitaka to his mother, now born as a devaputta.
The Twin Miracle is described at DA.i.57, and in very great detail at DhA.iii.204; see also J.iv.263ff. The DhA. version appears to be entirely different from the Jātaka version; the latter is very brief and lacks many details, especially regarding Pindola's miracle and the preaching of the Abhidhamma in Tāvatimsa. The account given in Dvy. (143-66) is again different; the Miracle was evidently repeatedly performed by the Buddha (see, e.g., Candanamālā), and it is often referred to - e.g., J.i.77, 88, 193; Ps.i.125; SNA.i.36; AA.i.71; MA.ii.962; Mil. 349; Vsm.390; PvA.137; Dāthāvamsa i.50. The miracle was also performed by the Buddha's relics; see, .e.g., Mhv.xvii.52f.; Sp.i.88, 92.
It is said (Mil.349) that two hundred millions of beings penetrated to an understanding of the Dhamma at the conclusion of the Miracle.
The Twin Miracle can only be performed by the Buddha. Mil.106. Yamaka p?tih?riya
The question of course is, did these "miracles" performed by the Buddha actually occur? The stories of the supernatural powers possessed by the Buddha are contained in the Pali Canon, the sacred texts of the Thervada school of Buddhism. But do the stories represent historically true events?
The answer to this question, yes or no, largely divides along religious line, depending on whether one is a firm believing Thervada Buddhist... or not.
Wikipedia
Muhammad Splits The Moon
The Hour (of Judgment) is nigh, and the moon is cleft asunder. But if they see a Sign, they turn away, and say, "This is (but) transient magic.
Early traditions and stories explain this verse as a miracle performed by Muhammad, following requests of some members of the Quraysh.[8][9] Most Muslim commentators accept the authenticity of those traditions[clarification needed]. The following verse 54:2, "But if they see a Sign, they turn away, and say, 'This is (but) transient magic'" is taken in the support of this view https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_of_the_moon
Wikipedia
Baraq
Al-Buraq (Arabic: البُراق al-Burāq or /ælˈbɔːræk/ "lightning") al-Buraq "lightning") is a steed in Islamic mythology, described as a creature from the heavens that transported the prophets. Most commonly told is how in the 7th century, Buraq carried the Islamic prophet Muhammad from Mecca to Jerusalem and back during the Isra and Mi'raj or "Night Journey",[1] which titles the sura (chapter) Al-Isra of the Qur'an. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buraq
The question is, did these "miracles" attributed to Muhammad actually occur? The stories of these supernatural events are contained in Muslim sacred literature. But do the stories represent historically true events?
The answer to this question, yes or no, largely divides along religious lines, depending on whether one is a firm believing Muslim... or not.
Did Jesus REALLY walk on water? Did Jesus REALLY move through solid walls, appearing in closed rooms? Did the corpse of Jesus REALLY return to life and then subsequently fly off up into the clouds? The stories of the supernatural events surrounding Jesus are contained in Christian scripture. But do the stories REALLY represent historically true events?
Are ANY of these stories realistic?
The answer to this question, yes or no, largely divides along religious lines, depending on whether one is a firm believing Christian, or Buddhist, or Muslim... or not.
The question then becomes, if these stories are NOT uniformly believable, then why do so many people believe them with such devotion and firm conviction?
And the answer to that question is, an entire lifetime of unrelenting religious training and indoctrination, with no possibility of skepticism or questioning tolerated.
Some have said none of that was real.
Do you think he did that? Do you think it's possible?
Could man follow his example and simply advance enough to do such things?
Do others do similar things...like in India, so, it's not special to Jesus alone?
Thanks, should be a fun talk.
Yes. He did it. No...we cannot do the same, because we're not God.
Yes. He did it. No...we cannot do the same, because we're not God.
Because BaptistFundie says so. That settles that.
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I think it’s similar mythology to other religions of the time.
