Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy
In my country there doesn't seem to be a stigma attached to suicide. It is a very common cause of death here as in many parts of the world. The newspaper simply reported that a Christchurch man was found dead in his car.
I cannot say whether or not secularism has anything to do with suicide rates. All I can say is I have witnessed church groups attempting to give support to the unfortunate. Being supported is better than being left alone. I'm not sure what effects religion would have if the group was trying to 'remove the sufferers depression' through prayer and god belief alone and thereby discouraging them from getting real medical help. Then again, sometimes medical help simply doesn't help. I watched as my son suffered. Health professionals couldn't help and neither could prayer.
Suicide is caused by depression and despair, not secularism and is prevented by caring people with the necessary skills and means.
|
Sometimes there really is no way out other than suicide.
If your circumstances are bad enough and irrevocable and unfixable, then no amount of talk therapy, no amount of medication, not even a support group will really help.
People who aren't in these situations often can't fathom a person's life being so bad as to want to die.
In the USA, too, the culture is to value life - the biological aspects of life, which is why a person whose brain is mush thanks to an accident often can't be disconnected from life support without a big court battle. Because there's always family members who think that as long as a person is "alive" - even if machines do all of the work - then it's worth staying that way.
What we don't focus enough on is quality of life. And that's what really makes life worth living in the first place. If a person has some kind of medical ailment that keeps them bed-ridden and in pain, really, what's the point? Especially if the condition is incurable and virtually untreatable.
On top of that, there are people out there with no support network whatsoever - no siblings, no spouse, no children, no nieces and nephews, no cousins, and few if any friends. What are those people supposed to do if they get sick? Their lives are miserable enough even without the illness.
I've long ago given up on judging people who commit suicide because no one can know the dark places in which these people dwell. Sometimes it can be prevented - other times, it probably shouldn't be. It depends on the situation.
It's a real shame that America's ridiculous obsession with religion prevents even the most humanitarian form of assissted suicide - because in their eyes, life is always preferable to death no matter how miserable and tortured you are. And because you'll end up in hell.
Most believers try to cite the commandment that reads "thou shalt not kill," but almost any Biblical scholar will tell you that it essentially means "thou shalt not murder," because there are those times when kllling might be necessary.
And since you can't murder someone who wants to die - especially yourself - then no commandments have actually been broken. Murder can be defined as the
involuntary taking of a life which is why homicide is different from suicide.
At any rate, as I said in my post to Jeff, it's not the absence of God or the absence of faith, belief, dogma, reading a Bible, praying and all of the religious mambo-jahambo that might cause suicide rates to be higher among the non-religious.
No - it's the absence of a social support group that makes it much harder for an atheist to survive depression than a believer. Other atheists fall into depression because they have to continue living a lie by going to church, reading the Bible, singing hymns, and living under the draconian rules of many Christian denominations - despite losing their faith and becoming an atheist.
And those that do come out into the open suffer even more hardships - depending on where you live. If you live in NYC or San Fran or some other diverse place, you're likely to have a much easier time coming out as an atheist. But if you live in some tiny town in Kentucky, you're doomed. Because everyone you know will most likely turn against you.
People like Jeff want to convince everyone that it is the actual belief in God - or the lack thereof - that causes the higher suicide rates (assuming the rates are actually higher, which they may not be), when there are half a dozen other mitigating factors that Jeff will ignore.
It's a classic false dichotomy or "false dilemma" fallacy.
If a fundevangelist can make an argument for religion without falling prey to at least one fallacy, I'll be truly amazed.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
