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What, you think the more bodies that stay alive longer despite mental and/or physical agony is a good thing? get over yourself with your higher than thou opinions. People can do whatever the hell they want with their lives, and that includes ending them.
It's NONE OF YOUR GD BUSINESS who commits suicide or why.
What if they are committing suicide because they can't find friends? Most times, it should be The People's interest and business.
Still, were it a real goal of religion to be celibate and commit suicide for one good cause or another, we would have the religious berating the non-religious for wishing to live for a cause, rather than dying for vainly attempting but not achieving one.
jeff shoots himself in the foot with some degree of regularity but I knew from the OP he was using a 12 gauge this time.
Oh come on admit it!! You all are having a grand old time coming up with clever versions of Jeff's opening line, collectively talking trash on Jeff, reverting to "pack mentality" and collectively patting yourselves on the back and bouying each other up...
You would be sad if Jeff left town, he is the Professor Moriarty to your Sherlock Holmes, the Darth Vader to your Luke Skywalker. What would the story be if the villian was absent. You would all miss him, You all cant wait to get home, log in, and see how your posts were responded too. You know it's true...
Hey look!! I'm an Agnostic and admit that Christianity, and Apologetics in particular, have some credibility problems. Mainly a big lack of tangible, credible proof and evidence to back claims, etc.
Also, as many or more people have likely died in the name of Christ with the Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Genocide, Religious Wars, Religious Fanatics, etc.. etc... than have perished by suicide (counting both secular and non-secular). And furthermore this is just considering Christianity, blend in the death and mayhem toll of other religions and you REALLY have some impressive numbers.
But these are minor details....
Quote:
Originally Posted by monumentus
Hah yeah - I have to admit the tactic of "Dodge by analogy" is not one that has ever impressed me all that much.
Nice try, but regardless of the content, Rosemary took the effort, creativity, originality and thoughtfulness to design an original package.
You're not going to talk Christians out of their beliefs using words, because (speaking for myself), I have experienced something that transcends all human opinions. I shan't be talked out of it by anyone.
I do have a question for you. Are you happy?
It'd be interesting to see the "happiness quotient" for atheists vs. believers.
...
Quote:
“I want to live a real life… I don’t want to dream any longer.â€
You're not going to talk Christians out of their beliefs using words, because (speaking for myself), I have experienced something that transcends all human opinions. I shan't be talked out of it by anyone.
I do have a question for you. Are you happy?
It'd be interesting to see the "happiness quotient" for atheists vs. believers.
For myself, my happiness went up once I left Christianity, but everyone has different personal experiences I suppose. I expect maybe happiness is not the right word, since I don't know that religion in general, nor Christianity specifically promises "happiness". Joy and peace, perhaps, but I think those are separate from happiness. I find I that experience far more joy and am at peace with myself, and contented with who I am and my life than I even did as a believer. It doesn't necessarily mean I am "happy" in some sort of frantic, over the top, saccharine way, but I am content, more grounded, and more able to let go and allow myself to feel and to be that I ever was as a believer.
Oh come on admit it!! You all are having a grand old time coming up with clever versions of Jeff's opening line, collectively talking trash on Jeff, reverting to "pack mentality" and collectively patting yourselves on the back and bouying each other up...
You would be sad if Jeff left town, he is the Professor Moriarty to your Sherlock Holmes, the Darth Vader to your Luke Skywalker. What would the story be if the villian was absent. You would all miss him, You all cant wait to get home, log in, and see how your posts were responded too. You know it's true...
Hey look!! I'm an Agnostic and admit that Christianity, and Apologetics in particular, have some credibility problems. Mainly a big lack of tangible, credible proof and evidence to back claims, etc.
Also, as many or more people have likely died in the name of Christ with the Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Genocide, Religious Wars, Religious Fanatics, etc.. etc... than have perished by suicide (counting both secular and non-secular). And furthermore this is just considering Christianity, blend in the death and mayhem toll of other religions and you REALLY have some impressive numbers.
But these are minor details....
Nice try, but regardless of the content, Rosemary took the effort, creativity, originality and thoughtfulness to design an original package.
Girl done got ya beat...
I didn't see that coming.
Last edited by L8Gr8Apost8; 12-05-2018 at 07:22 PM..
Reason: I wasn't expecting that
You're not going to talk Christians out of their beliefs using words, because (speaking for myself), I have experienced something that transcends all human opinions. I shan't be talked out of it by anyone.
I do have a question for you. Are you happy?
It'd be interesting to see the "happiness quotient" for atheists vs. believers.
My experience and feeling-based opinions transcend your opinions about your experiences and feelings.
The happiest people are currently under the influence. Happiness doesn't say much past itself. Most people make it the center of their world, however.
In Judaism, this is currently not the case. What I've heard from Rabbis is that success is more important than happiness. Which is a little odd given that happiness is often a feeling one gets upon success (although not before, that often). And Muslims pray for success 5 times a day.
I would say that if one can't experience the range of human feelings, one is missing out. But feelings are as important as you want them to be. They can definitely be wrong, and they say that Ignorance is Bliss.
I assume that ignorance would work for happiness just as well.
Although they say that learning something new often makes a person happy.
If you can have a computer and participate in a forum, you have a lot to be happy for. But people often forget to be happy for all of the things they can be happy for (their bodies/unconscious instincts are always looking for that next big thing). If one were truly happy, they would not need to strive further for anything or for any further success. Why even take the next breath? Unless it makes you unhappy not to.
Oh come on admit it!! You all are having a grand old time coming up with clever versions of Jeff's opening line, collectively talking trash on Jeff, reverting to "pack mentality" and collectively patting yourselves on the back and bouying each other up...
You would be sad if Jeff left town, he is the Professor Moriarty to your Sherlock Holmes, the Darth Vader to your Luke Skywalker. What would the story be if the villian was absent. You would all miss him, You all cant wait to get home, log in, and see how your posts were responded too. You know it's true...
Hey look!! I'm an Agnostic and admit that Christianity, and Apologetics in particular, have some credibility problems. Mainly a big lack of tangible, credible proof and evidence to back claims, etc.
Also, as many or more people have likely died in the name of Christ with the Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Genocide, Religious Wars, Religious Fanatics, etc.. etc... than have perished by suicide (counting both secular and non-secular). And furthermore this is just considering Christianity, blend in the death and mayhem toll of other religions and you REALLY have some impressive numbers.
But these are minor details....
Nice try, but regardless of the content, Rosemary took the effort, creativity, originality and thoughtfulness to design an original package.
Girl done got ya beat...
Well, I'll repeat what I've said a number of times in the past (I think I even started a thread about if a few months ago) -- the greatest threat to respect for christianity is not what atheistis say. The greatest threat to christianity is christians who talk like Jeff. Right wing christianity has done more to stoke hate for christianity than anything since the Crusades and the Inquisition. They're doing a great job...keep up the good work!
Well, I'll repeat what I've said a number of times in the past (I think I even started a thread about if a few months ago) -- the greatest threat to respect for christianity is not what atheistis say. The greatest threat to christianity is christians who talk like Jeff. Right wing christianity has done more to stoke hate for christianity than anything since the Crusades and the Inquisition. They're doing a great job...keep up the good work!
Yes, but they want hate. Hate is one of the things they are told to expect if they are to assume themselves right. Of course, everyone is hated especially if they or a segment or their group are annoying and hateable. They don't bother to realize this because it gets in the way of good (and "safe") feelings.
You're not going to talk Christians out of their beliefs using words, because (speaking for myself), I have experienced something that transcends all human opinions. I shan't be talked out of it by anyone.
I do have a question for you. Are you happy?
It'd be interesting to see the "happiness quotient" for atheists vs. believers.
One should always be able to be talked out of their beliefs once they have been shown to be wrong. Atheism was not shown to be the cause of increased suicide rates. Perhaps it is but none of either the studies presented nor Jeff's assertions were evidence for that. Over the last three or four years Jeff has claimed that atheists are immoral, that we have no hope, that we cannot love someone without having a selfish reason for doing so and that there is no purpose for our lives. If that is what you believe and cannot be talked out of it, that is really sad. If you are talking about your belief in Jesus then I would be surprised if any words posted on a forum, on their own, will change your mind. Nor d9 I even care about those types of beliefs. It is when you use start using your belief, not as a tool to have helped you in both the death of your husband and your own health situation, but as a weapon to demonize those who do not share your belief and to blame them for all the woes of the world.
As far as happiness quotient goes, none of the top ten countries in the world are religious ones and I think just looking at the list, all if them enjoy both a good standard of living and a well formed social safety net. And most of them have a lower suicide rate than the more religious USA. Personally I think a strong social safety net plays a much larger role in both stats than does the rate of atheism but that is just a guess which I'd shown evidence otherwise I would change my mind.
I also personally think that a response to Shirina posts when she not only finely articulates an argument against Jeff's false claims but has also detailed her physical pain and disabilities plus threats of being raped or murdered with "are you happy?" , is a rather crude and rude way of totally dismissing everything she has said.
I also personally think that a response to Shirina posts when she not only finely articulates an argument against Jeff's false claims but has also detailed her physical pain and disabilities plus threats of being raped or murdered with "are you happy?" , is a rather crude and rude way of totally dismissing everything she has said.
My query was directed to atheists in general and not to Shirina in particular. I would never diminish anyone's personal torment and pain. And it's a bit of a red herring to throw that inflammatory statement in there. Boo on you.
Lest ye forget, I jumped into this fray because of my own experience with suicide.
Y'all have been discussing suicide on a theoretical plane. I came home one day in April 2016 to find that my much-loved husband had blown out his brains with a 9mm Glock.
These discussions about God and suffering and suicide are NOT theoretical for me. Every hour of every day, I have to choose how to deal with the cacophony of horrible, intrusive and pain-filled thoughts that attack me.
I lean on God, and that is where I find comfort.
Women who lose a spouse to suicide are 16x more likely (than the average population) to end their own lives. Were it not for the grace and peace I find in the Divine, I would have become another statistic, either dead by my own hand, or so deranged that I couldn't function in society.
Perhaps that's why it's especially puzzling to me that anyone would want to diminish another soul's hope and comfort in a Supreme Being.
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