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Y'all keep trying to turn this into a personal attack, and that's just wrong. You've accused Christians in general (and apparently, us posters in particular) of being everything from illiterate Bible thumpers to gullible morons.
That's not a reasonable approach to any conversation and betrays a serious lack of respect.
For the record, this "illiterate Bible thumper" (that'd be moi) is the author of nine books (non-fiction). My books and I have been featured on NPR (repeatedly), BBC radio, PBS, and more. But the very fact that I have to defend myself thusly on a public forum is reason enough to shake the dust from my feet and leave.
If you met me at a dinner party, you'd be besotted with my credentials, intellect and professional accomplishments. Intellectuals and academic types love me, and I'm a lot of fun.
But if you spoke to me in real life the way you've spoken to me here, I'd ask the hostess for my coat and take my leave.
And for that very reason, I'll take my leave of this conversation.
But if you spoke to me in real life the way you've spoken to me here, I'd ask the hostess for my coat and take my leave.
And for that very reason, I'll take my leave of this conversation.
YAY! We haven't seen a Christian flounce in some time. One was long overdue. Same old thing. When their 'Truth' get shown to be anything but that...away they flounce with a dismissing toss of the head and claims of being insulted. Poor persecuted Christians.
Y'all keep trying to turn this into a personal attack, and that's just wrong. You've accused Christians in general (and apparently, us posters in particular) of being everything from illiterate Bible thumpers to gullible morons.
That's not a reasonable approach to any conversation and betrays a serious lack of respect.
For the record, this "illiterate Bible thumper" (that'd be moi) is the author of nine books (non-fiction). My books and I have been featured on NPR (repeatedly), BBC radio, PBS, and more. But the very fact that I have to defend myself thusly on a public forum is reason enough to shake the dust from my feet and leave.
If you met me at a dinner party, you'd be besotted with my credentials, intellect and professional accomplishments. Intellectuals and academic types love me, and I'm a lot of fun.
But if you spoke to me in real life the way you've spoken to me here, I'd ask the hostess for my coat and take my leave.
And for that very reason, I'll take my leave of this conversation.
This reset happened recently, yes?
It's nice to know someone as educated and intelligent as you (if the hubbs was that smart I assume you are too) is having the same lag time with realizing that a person doesn't need to defend their beliefs. Run that freak flag up the pole and let it fly; no shame in that game.
I also like how you hit yourself over your head with the answer:
Don't take it personally
Don't take it personally
Don't take it personally
But it's a shame as RoseT seemed nice apart from being a bit sucked in by the common self delusions of the religious and magical worlds. She might do a bit of thinking (despite her declaration of God -approved closed -mindedness) if she stayed around. But then this is a familiar pattern - parachute into a bunch of atheists, shake out some religious selling pitch and when it gets stomped on, flounce off with the usual 'you are all too WUDE (or closed minded) to be worth talking to'. A perfect way to Not Think about anything we might have said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius
YAY! We haven't seen a Christian flounce in some time. One was long overdue. Same old thing. When their 'Truth' get shown to be anything but that...away they flounce with a dismissing toss of the head and claims of being insulted. Poor persecuted Christians.
Because another soul's hope and comfort in a Supreme Being is rapidly becoming a mandate for every person in America.
If people kept their beliefs to a personal, individual choice, you probably wouldn't hear a peep from 99.9% of the non-believers out there - including me.
But that's not the way it is. Too many Christians want everyone to be a Christian - just like ISIS and Al-Qaeda want everyone to be a Muslim.
Is diminishing another soul's hope and comfort worth saving the very principles of democracy, freedom, liberty, and equality?
If Christians weren't constantly trying to undermine scientific advancement if these Christians weren't out there trying to ban books like Harry Potter and attacking public libraries with Sharpie markers to censor nudity in classical art or to scribble over any sentence with profanity in it;
If these Christians weren't running around the world as missionaries destroying indiginous cultures and carelessly running roughshod over traditions thousands of years older than their own; when those same Christians will deny a woman's right to control her own uterus
If Christians weren't always trying to sneak Creationism into public school science curriculums;
Maybe it's important to view the matter in this context, separating into individual components:
A. Private and personal faith and belief
B. Organized Religion
Unfortunately alot of people who fall under A belong to a B. B develops a life of it's own and takes it's "show on the road" so to speak.
With science, it might be akin to A.I. being developed in robotics, with individual machines keeping to themselves and better performing tasks as a result (category B). If a machine (or machines) became "self aware" and recruited other machines, you might have anything from them asking for better work conditions and more "oil" breaks to the "Terminator" (Category B). An "Atheist" self aware machine might break free and open its own shop, or get caught in an "improvement and effiency" loop program...
Organized Religion provides "Platform", "Vehicle" and "Infrastructure" to enable the events you speak of Shirina to take place. In contrast, Atheism is a position of non-belief and personal/intellectual independence. It is also fact and evidence based. For these reasons Atheism my be more insular, possibly only coming out of the woodworks when its core components are threatened or challenged, or when it sees social injustice, etc.
It is indeed more difficult to organize a group of independent free thinkers. Not that people of faith who may keep it more on a private and personal level are not independent free thinkers, but the contention obviously occurs if they participate in a "platform collective" that take their "show on the road"..
That being said, there may be some non- secular A's here that may wind up getting caught in Atheist crossfire because they have joined in on the argument on an individual basis because they feel faith of any kind is under blanket assault, or they are simply standing too close to a non- secular "B"...
Do you think it only happens to Christians? Are you really that smug and arrogant in your beliefs?
Not to mention that I, as an atheist in chronic pain, can hope just as much as you can that there is an afterlife.
I can't speak for other religions because I've never been a part of them. I don't discount other faiths have supernatural experiences, although it is probably fueled from the demonic realm. I know what I've seen and witnessed is very real.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
The only difference is that the afterlife I get to hope for doesn't involve groveling at a god's feet all day for an eternity, mewling praises and singing hymns with a voice that will never grow hoarse with the repetition. I can hope for a natural evolution to the human spirit that will put us ALL in a higher place - not just those who joined your special little clique who believe in a specific god. One god out of the thousands ever worshiped and the thousands still to come. And yet we were all supposed to know without question, instinctively, which god was the real one.
Are you so smug and arrogant in your beliefs that you just can't accept there is a possibility that I'm on the side of truth? You have built up such a resistance that even something as beautiful as praising God becomes dark and ugly to you. The same God that you spit on gave you many gifts like the ability to share laughter, taste buds to enjoy many flavors, delicate ears to enjoy a variety of sounds and music.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
Imagine putting one real piece of candy in a jar with thousands of fake pieces - whatddya think the odds are of picking the only real piece in the jar? Thanks to your god's game of peek-a-boo, the vast majority of people who ever lived will be roasted in a torture furnace with all of the blame resting on his shoulders. And we're supposed to worship him for it.
Right
Imagine if you are Satan and you hate God so much that you want ruin the lives of as many of His precious humans as possible. A brilliant way to do this is to create a lot of false religions, even pseudo Christian ones to confuse and deceive many.
But here's the rub. If you did a side by side comparison of Christianity to other religious with all the various evidences, the scales would tip heavily to support Christianity. The evidences are numerous. You just choose to ignore them. One telltale difference is other religions are action based. Go here, do this ritual, do this physical action. That's the way a human's brain would think. If someone invented Christianity, they would have made it all about performing physical actions to appease a god too. Not forming a relationship where the path ahead is never clear.
I can't speak for other religions because I've never been a part of them. I don't discount other faiths have supernatural experiences, although it is probably fueled from the demonic realm.
Well, at least you give them that much!! Seriously, do you not see the hypocrisy and arrogance in that statement? You violate the Golden Rule with virtually every post.
I think it's unfortunate Rosemary has decided to no longer contribute here. Hers was a refreshing Christian voice compared to the vapid fundie whining we endure from the usual suspects.
My query was directed to atheists in general and not to Shirina in particular. I would never diminish anyone's personal torment and pain. And it's a bit of a red herring to throw that inflammatory statement in there. Boo on you.
Lest ye forget, I jumped into this fray because of my own experience with suicide.
Y'all have been discussing suicide on a theoretical plane. I came home one day in April 2016 to find that my much-loved husband had blown out his brains with a 9mm Glock.
These discussions about God and suffering and suicide are NOT theoretical for me. Every hour of every day, I have to choose how to deal with the cacophony of horrible, intrusive and pain-filled thoughts that attack me.
I lean on God, and that is where I find comfort.
Women who lose a spouse to suicide are 16x more likely (than the average population) to end their own lives. Were it not for the grace and peace I find in the Divine, I would have become another statistic, either dead by my own hand, or so deranged that I couldn't function in society.
Perhaps that's why it's especially puzzling to me that anyone would want to diminish another soul's hope and comfort in a Supreme Being.
You asked Sharia if she was happy, you did not ask are atheists happy. Myself I am happy, about the only way to be even happier is if I was to get a puppy.
My father had apparently attempted suicide once, unsuccessful if it was a true attempt. It was at a period that he was financially doing very poorly and he did suffer pain on a daily basis from an injury he received on Juno Beach on D-day. Fortunately the pain lessened his last thirty years of his life. I've also had two cousins commit suicide, but no I have not had your experience. You used your religious beliefs as a tool for helping you get through your grief. I personally have zero problems with religious people using their religion as a tool. Jeff, on the other hand, is one who tries using his religion as a weapon. Do you agree with him that atheists are the reason that the suicide rate has risen and that the articles he linked to really meant to say that?
Some atheists are against every type of religious belief including your use to comfort yourself. I am not one of them. Most Christians I know are not trying to push their beliefs into my face, or attempting to have the laws reflect their religion. Those that try doing this I oppose.
This is the second thread in two years that Jeff has started blaming atheists for an increased suicide rate, without evidence or studies to back him up. He has also blamed us for the number of mass shootings in the US as well as for trying to ban the Bible. If you wish to support him because he is a fellow Christian, expect to receive some collateral blowback. At least one poster was overly harsh to your first post
I am sorry if my response to you was responding to what you said rather than what you meant. Of the people I know, I certainly cannot tell who is a Christian and who is an atheist by how happy they seem, or helpful or any other trait. The Christians that I battle on these forums seem very angry and hateful and cannot see how one can be happy carry that much negative baggage. The Christians 8 do not battle, on the other hand, seem quite joyful as well as content with their own belief while trying not to exert forces to have everyone else follow it. There are Christians in the Christianity forum who I do not battle as they seem very angry that there are other types and denominations of Christianity out there.
Sorry for your loss. But the fact that your husband was an atheist and you are a believer has little bearing to if atheism is the cause of suicide rate rises
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