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Y'all keep trying to turn this into a personal attack, and that's just wrong.
Nope. You are the one turning disagreements into personal attacks when they were never meant as such. Much like Jeff - you want to spin everything into attack even when it is not one. This is a discussion and debate forum. People will disagree with you here. Sometimes at length. Not every disagreement is an attack or a personal affront. That's not a reasonable approach to any conversation and betrays a serious lack of respect.
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Originally Posted by RosemaryT
If you met me at a dinner party, you'd be besotted with my credentials, intellect and professional accomplishments. Intellectuals and academic types love me, and I'm a lot of fun.
Had to snort into my milk at this one. Have to admit it is a long long long time since I met anyone with such an overinflated opinion of themselves. I used to have a boss who felt he had to keep going around telling everyone what a nice and fair person he was. Mainly because he was neither of those things. I fear the moment a person has to go around telling people how great they are - rather than merely demonstrating it in word and deed - they tend to gravitate instantly to bigging up the lowest attributes of themselves and the things they tell you are so great about themselves - usually aren't.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Are you so smug and arrogant in your beliefs that you just can't accept there is a possibility that I'm on the side of truth?
Or are you so smug and arrogant that you think that accepting you might be on the side of truth involves acting like you are? The very fact I inquire into evidence for the existence of a god for example is proof that I am open to the possibility that there is one. The very act of asking you for evidence for your positions is a demonstration to you that we are "accepting that possibility".
The fact you then present no evidence - usually by way of making up an excuse that blames us for you withholding it - is where the real arrogance lies. And is the reason why while accepting you _might_ be on the side of truth - we also accept there is currently no reason to think or expect you _actually_ are.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
The same God that you spit on gave you many gifts like the ability to share laughter, taste buds to enjoy many flavors, delicate ears to enjoy a variety of sounds and music.
All of which you are - as usual - asserting with absolutely no evidence or basis.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
The evidences are numerous.
Then why is it you talk _about_ the evidence without ever telling us what it actually is. At some point when you keep saying there is a lot of evidence but never manage to offer any of it - the "boy who cried wolf" effect comes into play.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
You just choose to ignore them.
It would be nonsense for me to go around claiming you keep refusing sandwiches from me. Why? Because I have never actually offered you one - so you have never had the chance to refuse one from me.
Similarly you claiming we are ignoring your evidence is just bull. Because until you actually offer some - we have not been afforded any opportunity to ignore it. And you yourself _admit_ you do not offer that evidence. When and how? Well every time you make up nonsense of the form "I am not giving you the evidence because - " which you do often.
Similarly you claiming we are ignoring your evidence is just bull. Because until you actually offer some - we have not been afforded any opportunity to ignore it. And you yourself _admit_ you do not offer that evidence. When and how? Well every time you make up nonsense of the form "I am not giving you the evidence because - " which you do often.
I'm not even looking for evidence in a forum (which in some ways couldn't be given sometimes), an applicable rationale with traceable and testable facts would be enough to get the ball rolling.
I'm not even looking for evidence in a forum (which in some ways couldn't be given sometimes), an applicable rationale with traceable and testable facts would be enough to get the ball rolling.
That's true too. Atheism is supposed to produce evidence - a mere explanation won't do. But (we have seen) evidence is dismissed as 'mere opinion of some scientists'. Whereas Theism makes mere assertions with no mechanism, let alone evidence.
The idea is that "God" is the only explanation that is needed and atheism has to do all the evidence finding. Theism only has to ignore it and they win, by default. This is why the burden of proof is the logical basis they so vehemently deny and reject.
The same God that you spit on gave you many gifts like the ability to share laughter, taste buds to enjoy many flavors, delicate ears to enjoy a variety of sounds and music.
.
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Originally Posted by monumentus
Then why is it you talk _about_ the evidence without ever telling us what it actually is. At some point when you keep saying there is a lot of evidence but never manage to offer any of it - the "boy who cried wolf" effect comes into play.
.
He might have finally offered some. I'd say he believes his above statement is the kind of 'evidence' he thinks is valid
He might have finally offered some. I'd say he believes his above statement is the kind of 'evidence' he thinks is valid
The all do. This is evidence that humans had to adapt or die, and we adapted superbly, upright posture, tool -using hands and an advanced problem -solving brain. We learned to adapt the environment to us, rather than adapting to the environment. Even transplanting chunks of it to our own backyard to save searching for it. We made life so easy and society so complex that we evolved social laws and arts and customs and - yes - religion to underline society and our place in it.
And when we had done all that - just as at the end of a gruelling 12 hour medical battle to save a life - humans are sidelined and Religion hi -jacks the credit for God.
I don't believe that he read any of it. And when we read it to him, he jammed his fingers in his ears and accused us of being biased.
I too have this idea, that Jeff is not doing the research himself, but is just finding these links on Christian web sites. I see this often with creationists, or from those who want to believe the shroud of Turin is genuine. They will link to papers they have not read, whether they support their arguments or not.
I can't speak for other religions because I've never been a part of them. I don't discount other faiths have supernatural experiences, although it is probably fueled from the demonic realm. I know what I've seen and witnessed is very real.
Satan, check.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Are you so smug and arrogant in your beliefs that you just can't accept there is a possibility that I'm on the side of truth? You have built up such a resistance that even something as beautiful as praising God becomes dark and ugly to you. The same God that you spit on gave you many gifts like the ability to share laughter, taste buds to enjoy many flavors, delicate ears to enjoy a variety of sounds and music.
Cancer does not exist and slavery is OK, check.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Imagine if you are Satan and you hate God so much that you want ruin the lives of as many of His precious humans as possible. A brilliant way to do this is to create a lot of false religions, even pseudo Christian ones to confuse and deceive many.
Ignore the evidence that religions are ALL man made constructs, check.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
But here's the rub. If you did a side by side comparison of Christianity to other religious with all the various evidences, the scales would tip heavily to support Christianity. The evidences are numerous. You just choose to ignore them.
More misrepresentation, check.
Plus projection.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
One telltale difference is other religions are action based. Go here, do this ritual, do this physical action. That's the way a human's brain would think. If someone invented Christianity, they would have made it all about performing physical actions to appease a god too. Not forming a relationship where the path ahead is never clear.
Ignorance of Christianity, wow, that was a new one for me.
I never said all christians, and in several posts I've said very positive things about christians I have known. Nevertheless, I heard a number of christians condemn other to hell. Period.
I'll happily paint with a broad brush when it comes to the christian right.
The point was that unless you know that the poster you were addressing herself condemns others to hell, it's not fair to tell her to suck up name-calling because other Christians have said those rotten things.
And yes, I do know that you aren't the type who automatically sneers at any sort of believer just because you yourself are atheist.
I too have this idea, that Jeff is not doing the research himself, but is just finding these links on Christian web sites. I see this often with creationists, or from those who want to believe the shroud of Turin is genuine. They will link to papers they have not read, whether they support their arguments or not.
Yes, I have seen Jeff post links, and they actually state exactly the opposite of what the "headlines" state, or what he think the headlines refer to. It's an interesting phenomena.
The point was that unless you know that the poster you were addressing herself condemns others to hell, it's not fair to tell her to suck up name-calling because other Christians have said those rotten things.
And yes, I do know that you aren't the type who automatically sneers at any sort of believer just because you yourself are atheist.
1. In regard to the poster in question, if you look back through her past posts, she sometimes lumps together "christians" and sometimes lumps together "atheists". As do most of us in this forum.
2. Thank you for your second paragraph, and I admire you for those same traits.
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