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I haven't been following the thread closely, so perhaps this has already been mentioned … A lot of atheists are former theists. Probably former fundamentalist theists, even. And when that rug gets pulled out from under you, it is disconcerting to say the least. Your whole world view is destroyed and, as fundamentalists, it was ingrained in us that without our "correct doctrines" we would be like a ship being tossed about by a very angry ocean. We're raised with fear, and the only thing that was standing between us and certain doom was our beliefs.
How many people have a support system in place to help them navigate that, to help them find their sense of equilibrium again? Most people are surrounded by others who believe as they USED to believe, so there's probably not many, if any, others to turn to. It's a hell of a place to be, let me tell you. It wouldn't surprise me at all if some people, in a desperation to escape the discomfort of that grief and pain and helplessness and fear, wanted to end it in any way they could.
It happens all the time on the recovery group I'm in. These people have found support and sometimes it still isn't enough.
Yes but if you found Jesus again you'd be REALLY happy.............
You'd go skipping down the street everyday singing tra! la! la! la! la!
I understand why some newly-minted, freshly born-again Christians pop up from a life of drugs, or alcohol abuse often caused by incest, other child abuse, neglect etc.
Belief in Jesus is offered as a lifeline.
If you've never been drowning, you can't imagine the gift of an outstretched arm.
I have a great deal of understanding and empathy for a believer who comes to Christianity - or any other belief system - via this route.
Hope is life's dearest gift. It keeps you moving forward when life is seemingly tilted against you. I can't begrudge anyone for seizing on its light when their way is dark.
I haven't been following the thread closely, so perhaps this has already been mentioned … A lot of atheists are former theists. Probably former fundamentalist theists, even. And when that rug gets pulled out from under you, it is disconcerting to say the least. Your whole world view is destroyed and, as fundamentalists, it was ingrained in us that without our "correct doctrines" we would be like a ship being tossed about by a very angry ocean. We're raised with fear, and the only thing that was standing between us and certain doom was our beliefs.
How many people have a support system in place to help them navigate that, to help them find their sense of equilibrium again? Most people are surrounded by others who believe as they USED to believe, so there's probably not many, if any, others to turn to. It's a hell of a place to be, let me tell you. It wouldn't surprise me at all if some people, in a desperation to escape the discomfort of that grief and pain and helplessness and fear, wanted to end it in any way they could.
No I totally disagree with this notion.
There is a very common feeling among atheists here that they are never more happier after leaving the religion (which is almost always Christianity). Every Atheist here seems happy and content with life, and his choices (or at least that’s how they act here).
So saying that “leaving religion pushes them into depression to a point that they commit suicide” doesn’t make sense at all.
If there was any truth in it then atheists who always beat the drums of “analyzing historical data and make
choices” would’ve had the word spread out for the entire world.
The data would “prove” it to them that the probability of committing suicide is highly increased if we leave the religion. Perhaps little to no one would become an Atheist.
There is a very common feeling among atheists here that they are never more happier after leaving the religion (which is almost always Christianity). Every Atheist here seems happy and content with life, and his choices (or at least that’s how they act here).
So saying that “leaving religion pushes them into depression to a point that they commit suicide” doesn’t make sense at all.
If there was any truth in it then atheists who always beat the drums of “analyzing historical data and make
choices” would’ve had the word spread out for the entire world.
The data would “prove” it to them that the probability of committing suicide is highly increased if we leave the religion. Perhaps little to no one would become an Atheist.
Not when a person is first coming out of it. There are tons of support groups for ex religious people. It can be traumatic and then there's the whole thing of feeling like a fool if you treated people a certain way because of your belief system.
There is a very common feeling among atheists here that they are never more happier after leaving the religion (which is almost always Christianity). Every Atheist here seems happy and content with life, and his choices (or at least that’s how they act here).
So saying that “leaving religion pushes them into depression to a point that they commit suicide” doesn’t make sense at all.
If there was any truth in it then atheists who always beat the drums of “analyzing historical data and make
choices” would’ve had the word spread out for the entire world.
The data would “prove” it to them that the probability of committing suicide is highly increased if we leave the religion. Perhaps little to no one would become an Atheist.
It is true that many of the Atheists that participate here have left Christianity. Some (not all) of those people had a very difficult time as they told their families of their non-belief. Many of them had this experience as young people, coming out when they were teenagers or young adults. At a time in their lives when they needed familial support, they were ostracized or even completely shunned by their families.
These people may indeed be happy and content many years, even decades, later. That says nothing about the trauma they experienced when they became unbelievers. Being shunned by your family could indeed have caused a disturbed young person to see suicide as his only option. Remember, he has no control over what he believes. His reasoning caused him to discard the beliefs he was taught as a young child. Just when he needs adult guidance to help him move forward in his life, he has nothing.
Certainly it makes sense that the reaction to his admission that he is leaving religion could cause such severe depression that suicide seems like a viable option. That most of these people survive and learn to live a good life without their family does nothing to take away from the trauma that some suffer as a result of the reactions of their families and churches.
There isn't any data. Many of these people were looking for data, and finding none, realized that religious belief had no data to support it, so their reasoning lead them to lose their belief. You don't choose to believe. Either you believe or you don't.
It is true that many of the Atheists that participate here have left Christianity. Some (not all) of those people had a very difficult time as they told their families of their non-belief. Many of them had this experience as young people, coming out when they were teenagers or young adults. At a time in their lives when they needed familial support, they were ostracized or even completely shunned by their families.
These people may indeed be happy and content many years, even decades, later. That says nothing about the trauma they experienced when they became unbelievers. Being shunned by your family could indeed have caused a disturbed young person to see suicide as his only option. Remember, he has no control over what he believes. His reasoning caused him to discard the beliefs he was taught as a young child. Just when he needs adult guidance to help him move forward in his life, he has nothing.
Certainly it makes sense that the reaction to his admission that he is leaving religion could cause such severe depression that suicide seems like a viable option. That most of these people survive and learn to live a good life without their family does nothing to take away from the trauma that some suffer as a result of the reactions of their families and churches.
There isn't any data. Many of these people were looking for data, and finding none, realized that religious belief had no data to support it, so their reasoning lead them to lose their belief. You don't choose to believe. Either you believe or you don't.
Well done, you! Thanks for this thoughtful post.
I think there is an obvious reason why so many personal stories (of losing belief, leaving religion, etc) start in adolescence or young adulthood. The cracks may have started to appear earlier, during the so-called Age of Reason (roughly 7-14), but adolescence is when they are able to start exercising some autonomy. Nevertheless, it can be very traumatic, depending on the reaction of the family and the social structure around them. In my own case, my actions may have signaled unbelief, but it still took several decades for my words to honestly reflect those actions. It never reached the point of depression or suicidal ideation, but for some it clearly does.
[ETA: And just to be clear, any difficulty or trauma I experienced in navigating this had everything to do with the anticipated reaction of loved ones and the broader community around them. It had nothing to do with any sense of loss for the religion in which I was raised, or the beliefs that had been instilled. It was clear from the time I was a teenager that "there was no there, there"... so leaving that behind caused zero mental anguish. Put another way, I was much more concerned about what Mom might think of me, than what a non-existent God might think of me!]
Last edited by HeelaMonster; 02-14-2019 at 08:54 AM..
There is a very common feeling among atheists here that they are never more happier after leaving the religion (which is almost always Christianity). Every Atheist here seems happy and content with life, and his choices (or at least that’s how they act here).
So saying that “leaving religion pushes them into depression to a point that they commit suicide” doesn’t make sense at all.
If there was any truth in it then atheists who always beat the drums of “analyzing historical data and make
choices” would’ve had the word spread out for the entire world.
Well, good thing you have experience in leaving religion and becoming an atheist, huh?
Most of those who are happy to no longer be a part of religion have been atheists for a while, or they were never too into it to begin with, or have understanding family and friends. Where the issue comes in, is when someone who was raised in a fundamentalist household with fundy beliefs drilled into their head from birth, leaves religion. Not only do they struggle with the the fact that they don't believe in something that they have been taught their whole life as fact, they have to deal with "coming out" to their parents/family and friends, many of whom will no longer associate with them.
On top of that, if it is at a time in their life where they are already vulnerable, the lack of companionship and people willing to listen and help them, things can spiral. I will use my life as an example, with changes since I was the lucky one who had understanding family/friends.
Imagine that you are of high school age (14-18), and like members of the same sex. Now imagine that you have fundamentalist parents that have taught you your whole life that people who don't believe and gay people are abominations and bound for hell. Nothing more than people to feel pity and disdain for. You have fought for years to try and believe, but have just determined that there is no way you can. You have struggled with "coming out" for fear of what may happen when you do. You are already under a TON of stress, and trying to figure out what to do, and you are worried that your parents may disown you, and your friends who go to church will no longer hang out with you, or they have parents who will no longer let them hang out with you. Now, in my case, my friends and family were AWESOME about the whole situation, and made me feel loved regardless, so I was one of the lucky ones.
Now, imagine things went the other way. You "come out" (as an atheist or gay/bi or both) and your parents have a fit and treat you like the abomination they believe you to be and do nothing but make you feel terrible and preach at you, and your friends aren't interested in hanging out with a lesbian atheist anymore. You have just lost any people that you can talk to, and all the people that could have made things okay. If you can't understand how traumatizing something like this can be, especially if it is at a young age when people are very vulnerable to begin with, then you need to try and walk a mile in their shoes before commenting. Makes you look ignorant when you comment on things you know nothing about.
You can disagree all you want, but the thing about facts is that they don't require you to believe them to be true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals
The data would “prove” it to them that the probability of committing suicide is highly increased if we leave the religion. Perhaps little to no one would become an Atheist.
Or perhaps you would realize religion is a placebo, and we could start treating the underlying issues instead of masking them with religion.
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