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Old 02-02-2019, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
You are just trying to avoid a simple question.
Not any more than you ignoring my post 208 in the Why I Lost My Faith thread.

However, personally I find this phrase: "objective moral standard for a purposeless entity" pretty bizarre. I'll be happy to address it when it's explained to me. But I also know of no "objective moral standard" in almost anything.
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Old 02-02-2019, 07:49 PM
 
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Others are wondering the same thing,
what is a "purposeless entity?"
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Old 02-02-2019, 07:59 PM
 
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Any "choice" or "decision" is based on and determined by and directly related to a person's motive and intention.
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Old 02-02-2019, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
Any "choice" or "decision" is based on and directly related to a person's motive and intention.
Agreed. And since it is a personal motive and intention, I have a difficult time saying it's "objective" since it changes from one person to another.
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Old 02-03-2019, 02:53 AM
 
63,822 posts, read 40,118,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Objective moral standard? Never heard of such a thing.

Purposeless entity? What's that?
You are since under your no God premise there is no purpose for your existence.
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Old 02-03-2019, 05:55 AM
 
7,596 posts, read 4,166,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaylenwoof View Post
Objective moral ambiguity = Situations exist in which moral decisions must be made, but there are no absolutely clear and correct moral choices in the situation.

A rejection of moral ambiguity = In every case there is always a clear and objectively correct moral choice (clear, at least, to God, even if some humans have trouble seeing it).

Along these lines: Would God ever purposefully present (or passively allow a human being to be presented with) a morally ambiguous situation (i.e., a moral dilemma that has no objectively correct answer)? Is it possible that God might sometimes test humans by presenting them with a morally ambiguous situation?

Could there be some spiritual growth/enlightenment to be gained by being presented with a genuinely ambiguous moral situation?

Obviously theists of all sorts, as well as atheists and agnostics are welcome to jump in on this, but I am particularly curious about those who have strong backgrounds in the Old and/or New Testament Bible. Is there any textual evidence to clearly confirm or deny the possibility that the Biblical God might allow some realms of moral ambiguity?
I guess if it is ambiguous, God himself does not have the answer. Then how can it be a test? And if God does have the answer and the human sees it as ambiguous, then the human is not fully aware of God's rules or laws.
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Old 02-03-2019, 06:42 AM
 
Location: TX
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I see nothing the matter with thinking that a god (all-loving, omnibenevolent, etc.) could allow or even cause moral ambiguity at least temporarily, to accomplish some overriding good.
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Old 02-03-2019, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
To keep within the rules for this forum, God is a necessary part of the question, IMO. Without God (or a built-in purpose for existence) there can be no objective morality. Objective purposelessness allows for no objective morality - anything goes.
You are begging the question. An objective truth is objective whether a god exists or not. A circle has no corners whether a god exists or not.

And if a god decides what is moral, then that morality is subjective, not objective.

Now you will get the argument that God is objectively good, and therefore the Euthyphro dilemma is false, but the problem with that is even if it was true, that would just make God a member of the set of objective truths, and not a third alternative to the dilemma of Euthyphro.
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Old 02-03-2019, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You are since under your no God premise there is no purpose for your existence.
My evolved genes say otherwise.
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Old 02-03-2019, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Kent, Ohio
3,429 posts, read 2,735,118 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
I guess if it is ambiguous, God himself does not have the answer. Then how can it be a test?
Sometimes the "goal" might not be in the destination, as such, but in the journey itself. If there really are ambiguous moral situations, then perhaps there is some spiritual benefit in confronting these situations and dealing with them, even though there is no "correct" solution. In the example of abortion, suppose two women in essentially the same circumstances chose different options. If this particular situation happens to be morally ambiguous, then each woman's choice could be morally correct, even though they chose opposite solutions. The "test" might be simply to make them "run the course" - an "endurance test", as it were - a challenge to increase some sort of strength, or whatever. Also, some tests are simply to "see where you are" as opposed to seeing if you can accomplish any specific goal. You might be tested to see how many push-ups you can do, with no fixed goal defining how many you ought to do.

BTW: In case any of you don't already know, I'm a somewhat "mystical agnostic" so I don't really believe that there is (or isn't) a "higher intelligence" who would put humans to any sort of "test". I was simply trying to offer examples of possible theistic alternatives.
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