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Leaving out your obvious Christian/ Jesus bias,( Harder and harder to do lately) that sounds great except for your original (supposedly nonChristian ) synopsis that our "good thoughts, emanations, electrical impulses or whatever" coalesce with your mythical 'thing that is just nature"'.
So, do you have a rule book we haven't gotten other than, love each other? (I kinda think we all know that would be nice)
It might be easier to dialogue with you if it was clear whether or not you are arguing from a Christian/Jesus believer bias stance or your supposedly 'scientific' one
My belief in God is based on my personal experiences in meditation. My Synthesis summarizes the scientific bases of my plausible hypotheses explaining how it is possible. My adoption and revision of the Christian narrative is based on descriptions of the nature of God as revealed and demonstrated unambiguously by Jesus. It perfectly matched the consciousness I encountered.
What about a system where laws and morality are set to maximize well being for both individuals and society while providing protection where needed? How about a society where people are held responsible for their words and actions whether good or bad? Where they cannot blame Satan instead of solving problems with actual solutions that address those problems.
Really, and who oversees such a system? What if the watchers of the law are corrupt? We have one of the most moral fair legal systems in the world and yet our government is full of corruption. Who watches the watchers.
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Originally Posted by badlander
It's rather sad that you think humans would spend all their time and energy raping, murdering and stealing if your God does not exist. I have never believed in a God and never once was tempted to rape some even once in my life or thought of murdering anyone. My crime spree in my youth was 2 speeding tickets and a parking ticket. I cannot even contemplate your thinking that it is only your faith in a God that might keep you from rape and murder. I would genuinely be surprised if you do contemplate raping and murdering.
Good for you. But you are still operating in a realm where God exists and there is fear of consequences.
What happens when that fear is removed? We have seen snippets of what can happen in history. When hurricanes destroyed and overwhelmed law enforcement, what happens? People loot. They steal because they won't get in trouble. Did you know after WW2, a number of German women had their heads shaven, were beaten and raped? And that was by people who were victims of Nazi oppression. They became the monsters that they fought against. And those were people born with the same brains as you have. It's in our sin nature to want to hurt those who hurt us. Let's not pretend that our capacity for evil has diminished from a few decades ago.
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Originally Posted by badlander
You have no proof that Hitler was not a Christian. Nor do you have any evidence that we should be concerned about an after life. If there is an afterlife
By their fruits, you will know them. Matthew 7:15-20 Hitler's fruits were terror, murder and destroying God's people. He most certainly was not a Christian. And there is plenty of evidence of an afterlife out there. Go join a paranormal society and you'll find evidences. Now proving beyond a shadow of a doubt is something completely different. But it is really foolish to gamble your eternal destination on a smug confidence that you can not possibly be wrong. With so much at stake, I would be spending every day researching and seeking the truth to know for sure.
By their fruits, you will know them. Matthew 7:15-20 Hitler's fruits were terror, murder and destroying God's people. He most certainly was not a Christian.
He was certainly not Scottish.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
And there is plenty of evidence of an afterlife out there. Go join a paranormal society and you'll find evidences.
Evidence for gullible people desperate to believe.
So you rather have a system where every human is fully allowed to do anything they want without consequence? Well then you would be here blasting God for being so immoral by not putting an end to evil and wicked people who are hurting others.
No, we wouldn't rather have that, and we don't. Our current system (in most countries of the world) is based on secular laws that reflect societal norms, and we don't have a situation where "every human is fully allowed to do anything they want without consequence." Do you really think we wouldn't have laws against murder (or would have killing without consequence), were it not for one mythical figure telling another mythical figure "thou shalt not kill" on a mountainside? You and everyone you know NOT wanting to be killed provides enough motivation for that condition, if we want to be part of society.
Last edited by HeelaMonster; 02-20-2019 at 09:36 AM..
Really, and who oversees such a system? What if the watchers of the law are corrupt? We have one of the most moral fair legal systems in the world and yet our government is full of corruption. Who watches the watchers.
Good for you. But you are still operating in a realm where God exists and there is fear of consequences.
What happens when that fear is removed? We have seen snippets of what can happen in history. When hurricanes destroyed and overwhelmed law enforcement, what happens? People loot. They steal because they won't get in trouble. Did you know after WW2, a number of German women had their heads shaven, were beaten and raped? And that was by people who were victims of Nazi oppression. They became the monsters that they fought against. And those were people born with the same brains as you have. It's in our sin nature to want to hurt those who hurt us. Let's not pretend that our capacity for evil has diminished from a few decades ago.
By their fruits, you will know them. Matthew 7:15-20 Hitler's fruits were terror, murder and destroying God's people. He most certainly was not a Christian. And there is plenty of evidence of an afterlife out there. Go join a paranormal society and you'll find evidences. Now proving beyond a shadow of a doubt is something completely different. But it is really foolish to gamble your eternal destination on a smug confidence that you can not possibly be wrong. With so much at stake, I would be spending every day researching and seeking the truth to know for sure.
And lots of evidence that people raped, killed and plundered in the name if God. My BIL risked his life during the war saving some Jews in the Netherlands. Why d9 you always concentrate on the bad part of humans and never consider the good? When the former Yugoslavia broke up, Christians mass slaughtered Muslim males. So much for the fear of the Christian afterlife. In addition to the famous crusades there was one to use force to convert the pagan Norse and Germania peooles. So much for fear of God and the afterlife.
98% of Germans during WWII considered themselves either Lutheran or Catholic and they not only elected Hitler and served him but many also gladly turned in Jews, atheists and gays to be slaughteted. D9nt blame Nazi Germany on lack of belief in God.
I am not going to spend my time in paranormal looking for whatever 8t is you search for. Why don't you send some energy looking at science and psychology instead?
No I credit my being a good person on my own nature, my parents, my friends and acquaintances and society. Until you provide sufficient evidence for a God and after that evidence for your God, I do not accept that I don't rape and murder because of him. The entire concept that humans are by nature only disgusting horrible creatures bent on murdering, raping and stealing and only a belief in a certain God can prevent them from continously raping, murdering and stealing is a concept I do not accept. Even in the animal world you only concentrate on the worse of what any animal does. Elephants reducing a member of another species, painted dogs caring for a disable adult member,, mother bears defending their cubs or the dedication of dogs to their masters are all attributes that you ignore in order to put down lives without belief in your God. Dogs have died defending humans from other humans, animals or natural events.
I am not smug. If when I die and there is an afterlife and I am facing Allah or Odin I will honestly tell them I lived a good life, treated all fairly was honest about my thoughts of gods and religion and did n9t see sufficient evidence to believe in any gods or goddesses. I am not sure what you will tell Allah or Odin and why you were so smug in your Bible belief. Pascal Wager is a very poor argument. And by the way nobody demands iron clad proof for anything. That is just another of your strawman arguments. We don't require iron clad proof in science, in sentencing accused murdered to death in Texas or for a belief in any gods. And you certainly cannot provide that kind of proofs that Christians are all wonderful and good and atheists are all horrible and bad.
Sure! I'd prefer that over burning hell in excruciating torment for eternity. You're so into this "let 'em burn" thing you probably wouldn't even begin to comprehend the pain. But as usual, jeff, you inject pointless sensationalism into the conversation. Don't you believe humans can do even a single decent thing without using a book as flawed as the Bible for their moral compass? Let's follow laws like this:
Human beings are the most cruel to its own kind than any other species. We all centuries of history demonstrating man's immoral nature outside of religion to show that we can't be moral apart from God.
Quote:
There go about 10 million Harry Potter fans.
Or this
There go about 100 million gays.
And this corker:
There go about 2 billion kids!
Yep, when it comes to ethical guides, nothing beats the Bible!
Irrelevant. Those laws were a temporarily necessary measure to keep sin completely rooted out of the Israelites. Sometimes you gotta cut out the cancer before it kills the patient.
Human beings are the most cruel to its own kind than any other species. We all centuries of history demonstrating man's immoral nature outside of religion to show that we can't be moral apart from God.
Irrelevant. Those laws were a temporarily necessary measure to keep sin completely rooted out of the Israelites. Sometimes you gotta cut out the cancer before it kills the patient.
Did these laws completely root out sin from the Israelitites? If not then the temporary laws as you call them were totally unnessary and cruel. What about all the cruelty within religion? It was not a bunch of atheists killing in the name of Jesus during the Crusades, or colonial times or all the religious wars. Or the abuse of children by priests, or the treatment of unmarried mothers in Ireland by the church or the witch trials. Those were all done in the name of religion by people who believed they wrre doing God's work.
And why focus on humans cruelty and never ever the kindness and goodness of humans. You must find humans as the most vile disgusting creatures but no, you can only see the worse aspects of other species as well. Perhaps religion has abused you into thinking God is good, everthing else is evil or something. I clearly do not understand your hatred for animals, including humans . I am truly baffled.
Google animals saving other species and watch some of the videos. There is so much good in this world if you were only willing to accept that it is not all evil. Yes there is cruel acts and events too, however focusing on them totally and ignoring all the positive gives you a bleak outlook on all species.
Of course there is lots of good being done by religious people or religious organizations. I would need to be blind to not see that, same as there is bad done by religious people and organizations. And good and bad done by the non religious . And nature is gritty with what we see as cruelty but also notice the sweetness and gentleness in it too.
Take off your blinders and see both the good and bad everywhere. The good is out there too. Try to embrace and enjoy the good and minimize the bad.
Did these laws completely root out sin from the Israelitites? If not then the temporary laws as you call them were totally unnessary and cruel.
Did the blood line survive long enough for Christ to be born? Yes. Have the Jews survived despite attempts to destroy them and being scattered all over the world? Yes, they are a strong proud nation. So I wouldn't say the laws failed.
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Originally Posted by badlander
What about all the cruelty within religion? It was not a bunch of atheists killing in the name of Jesus during the Crusades, or colonial times or all the religious wars. Or the abuse of children by priests, or the treatment of unmarried mothers in Ireland by the church or the witch trials. Those were all done in the name of religion by people who believed they wrre doing God's work.
What about it? According to the Encyclopedia of Wars, only 7% of conflicts were religious in nature. There are bad apples in any group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander
And why focus on humans cruelty and never ever the kindness and goodness of humans. You must find humans as the most vile disgusting creatures but no, you can only see the worse aspects of other species as well. Perhaps religion has abused you into thinking God is good, everthing else is evil or something. I clearly do not understand your hatred for animals, including humans . I am truly baffled.
If man was inherently good, we wouldn't have things like school bullying. There is a twisted part in unsaved man that takes pleasure in kicking someone when they are done. The fact that random acts of kindness are highlighted on the news is really sad. Kindness shouldn't be so rare that it is newsworthy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander
Google animals saving other species and watch some of the videos. There is so much good in this world if you were only willing to accept that it is not all evil. Yes there is cruel acts and events too, however focusing on them totally and ignoring all the positive gives you a bleak outlook on all species.
The last time I observed animals was over the weekend. I fed my pet cat and watched him growl and swat at a starving feral cat that was coming close and just wanted a bite to eat. That's all programmed instinct.
Animals are not humans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander
Of course there is lots of good being done by religious people or religious organizations. I would need to be blind to not see that, same as there is bad done by religious people and organizations. And good and bad done by the non religious . And nature is gritty with what we see as cruelty but also notice the sweetness and gentleness in it too.
Take off your blinders and see both the good and bad everywhere. The good is out there too. Try to embrace and enjoy the good and minimize the bad.
As long as we are in this sin cursed world, there will always be bad. It would only be worse if God was completely separated from this world. All the beauty you see comes directly from Him.
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