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Did the blood line survive long enough for Christ to be born? Yes. Have the Jews survived despite attempts to destroy them and being scattered all over the world? Yes, they are a strong proud nation. So I wouldn't say the laws failed.
What about it? According to the Encyclopedia of Wars, only 7% of conflicts were religious in nature. There are bad apples in any group.
If man was inherently good, we wouldn't have things like school bullying. There is a twisted part in unsaved man that takes pleasure in kicking someone when they are done. The fact that random acts of kindness are highlighted on the news is really sad. Kindness shouldn't be so rare that it is newsworthy.
The last time I observed animals was over the weekend. I fed my pet cat and watched him growl and swat at a starving feral cat that was coming close and just wanted a bite to eat. That's all programmed instinct.
Animals are not humans.
As long as we are in this sin cursed world, there will always be bad. It would only be worse if God was completely separated from this world. All the beauty you see comes directly from Him.
I doubt that Judaism survived because rape victims were punished. My dogs would back away from their food dishes if one of the cats wanted to eat from it. You need to learn a lot more about animal behaviour. You make a claim that it is all programmed which goes against not only what most pet owners and ranchers say but against almost ever animal behaviorist whose life study is trying to determine how animals operate.
But no, to you it is simpler to believe that your cat defended it's food from a feral cat because Eve lead Adam to disobey God and eat the fruit. I have a friend who feeds wild cats and they don't fight over their foods probably as they are aware that they are all visitors at his place. And yet Adam and Eve ate the fruit. Confusing isn't it.
As far as the News goes, it is the unusual that gets reported. Even most serious car accidents make the News here but I can barely remember one piece of news stating a church did anything nice here. Because it is normal not news. I am leaving out the news about the church groups that lead the efforts to receive Syrian refugees, some of the 40 000 that Canada took in the other year against the wishes of most conservatives.
I treat others well as I wish others to treat me well. It works for the most part even if some are jerks and others are especially kind. And no thought 9f a reward into an afterlife needed.
And no, all the beauty in the world does not come from your God. I can see beauty in what others may see as ugly or unattractive. I see beauty in what many may view as boring. I think you see beauty as a sign of God and everything that is not beautiful as proof that humans are vile and disgusting creatures that deserve to be tortured for eternity. I think that is a sad and dark worldview and not one I would ever want to share with you. How do you love everyone when you think we are also so vile, horrible and terrible people?
I doubt that Judaism survived because rape victims were punished.
Doesn't matter. This constant bringing up Mosaic law only demonstrates ignorance about my faith.
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Originally Posted by badlander
My dogs would back away from their food dishes if one of the cats wanted to eat from it. You need to learn a lot more about animal behaviour. You make a claim that it is all programmed which goes against not only what most pet owners and ranchers say but against almost ever animal behaviorist whose life study is trying to determine how animals operate.
Yes, please do tell me that dogs DO NOT act according to their breed. Please tell me that if I run to the pet store and get say a Jack Russell terrier then that dog may not be hyper and excited like well pretty much every other dog in that group. There is a reason that only certain breeds are used as police dogs. Because dogs are highly predictable.
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Originally Posted by badlander
But no, to you it is simpler to believe that your cat defended it's food from a feral cat because Eve lead Adam to disobey God and eat the fruit. I have a friend who feeds wild cats and they don't fight over their foods probably as they are aware that they are all visitors at his place. And yet Adam and Eve ate the fruit. Confusing isn't it.
As far as the News goes, it is the unusual that gets reported. Even most serious car accidents make the News here but I can barely remember one piece of news stating a church did anything nice here. Because it is normal not news. I am leaving out the news about the church groups that lead the efforts to receive Syrian refugees, some of the 40 000 that Canada took in the other year against the wishes of most conservatives.
I treat others well as I wish others to treat me well. It works for the most part even if some are jerks and others are especially kind. And no thought 9f a reward into an afterlife needed.
Most people don't think of themselves negatively or say to themselves, wow I'm a real jerk. But in reality, most people are selective in their empathy, very self centered and greedy.
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Originally Posted by badlander
And no, all the beauty in the world does not come from your God. I can see beauty in what others may see as ugly or unattractive. I see beauty in what many may view as boring. I think you see beauty as a sign of God and everything that is not beautiful as proof that humans are vile and disgusting creatures that deserve to be tortured for eternity. I think that is a sad and dark worldview and not one I would ever want to share with you. How do you love everyone when you think we are also so vile, horrible and terrible people?
I see beauty as a sign of a Creator. Just take one species like butterflies and you see a wide range of color and features. We are HIs beloved creation. He took time to give us so many unique appearances. Even just look at one body part like the nose and notice how many shapes and sizes of noses there are. Course, you have to believe the lie that this is just all random and meaningless. Love is nothing more than a chemical reaction in your brain in your dark world.
Doesn't matter. This constant bringing up Mosaic law only demonstrates ignorance about my faith.
Yes, please do tell me that dogs DO NOT act according to their breed. Please tell me that if I run to the pet store and get say a Jack Russell terrier then that dog may not be hyper and excited like well pretty much every other dog in that group. There is a reason that only certain breeds are used as police dogs. Because dogs are highly predictable.
Most people don't think of themselves negatively or say to themselves, wow I'm a real jerk. But in reality, most people are selective in their empathy, very self centered and greedy.
I see beauty as a sign of a Creator. Just take one species like butterflies and you see a wide range of color and features. We are HIs beloved creation. He took time to give us so many unique appearances. Even just look at one body part like the nose and notice how many shapes and sizes of noses there are. Course, you have to believe the lie that this is just all random and meaningless. Love is nothing more than a chemical reaction in your brain in your dark world.
Have you actual evidence that evolution is a lie? From your comments about it here and in the past I'd say you don't even have a basic understanding of how it works.
I do understand much more about your faith than you do about evolution or science. Stoning rape victims is 8n the OT and your claim was that these temporary laws were required for the survival of the Jewish people. There are many better reasons for my ancestors survival than the what 8 think are stupid and immoral laws. My grandmother wouldn't have pork in her house or let us have a glass of milk with a meal that had meat. However she didn't care if it wasn't her home and although she still never would eat pork, my grandfather had no problem with bacon and eggs.
In an earlier post I stated that the God of the OT set forth many terrible and cruel laws and endorsed genocide. Stoning or forced marrages of rape victims is immoral, cruel and in my opinion showed a complete lack of both respect and imagination by either that God or the composers of those stories. I do believe that your NT God is much less angry and cruel however if you accept Genesis and Exodus then you are also claimng the OT GOD as yours. If not then do not bring up OT scriptures and laws to support your extremely poor opinions of LBGT folks.
If you look at a butterfly as a sign of your God's beauty then why not the parasitic wssp, the smallpox virus or tapeworms? Love is m9re than a chemical reaction in my brain. Because I have a brain and am willing to use it I can understand not only the chemical reactions but what sets them off and how it makes me feel. No my world is brighter than yours, partly cause I am not inventing your world as a way to dismiss you. I would feel better about you if you still believed in your God but had a healthier more positive view of animals, especially humans. You cannot, or more correctly will not even attempt to honestlytry to understand my worldview. Did you know we can even map out the portion of the brain that is affected by the feeling of love in dogs as well as humans. Calling it just chemical reactions rather than chemical reactions 8nd8cates you are more interested in insulting or dismissing n9n Christians than of gaining any understanding at all. It's a shame because otherwise you are an intelligent articulate individual with a totally different worldview than I do. Unfortunately you are determined to throw up as many roadblocks as possible in every discussion so it goes off the rails.
I am capable of emphathy, love, anger, joy and sadness. They are chemical reactions within the brain but they are so much more. I know I can combat the sadness or anger by going on a long bike ride. Other chemicals kick in and sadness and anger abate. I know I love my wife, even when those chemicals are not surging. I don't know how you can dismiss neuroscience , behavioral studies etc and just think that God did it for absolutely every thought and emotion you have ever experienced.
Really, and who oversees such a system? What if the watchers of the law are corrupt? We have one of the most moral fair legal systems in the world and yet our government is full of corruption. Who watches the watchers.
What do you mean "who oversees such a system"? Of course man does. He been overseeing the system for the last 100,000 years and overall he's been doing just fine, hasn't he? When we have a mass shooter in an elementary school who springs into action, God or the SWAT team? Of course the SWAT team. When a banking system gets near the verge of a collapse who springs into action, God or the Federal Reserve? Of course the Fed. God has nothing whatsoever to do with anything going on down here. It's man that keeps things rolling. And you can complain about corruption of man all you want but at the end of the day we're all here safely climbing into our beds for a good night's sleep knowing that man has kept the world from blowing itself up in a nuclear holocaust one more day. God doesn't do that, man does.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Good for you. But you are still operating in a realm where God exists and there is fear of consequences.
What happens when that fear is removed? We have seen snippets of what can happen in history. When hurricanes destroyed and overwhelmed law enforcement, what happens? People loot. They steal because they won't get in trouble. Did you know after WW2, a number of German women had their heads shaven, were beaten and raped? And that was by people who were victims of Nazi oppression. They became the monsters that they fought against. And those were people born with the same brains as you have. It's in our sin nature to want to hurt those who hurt us. Let's not pretend that our capacity for evil has diminished from a few decades ago.
God probably does exist. I am not atheist, I am agnostic deist. But I see no evidence whatsoever that God is lifting a finger helping us down here in all this muck. If God wants to help, let him solve all the disease in Africa. That's his doing not man. Man didn't invent disease and poisonous snakes and spiders that bite and kill people, God did. He's the one who should be solving all that misery and suffering, not man.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
By their fruits, you will know them. Matthew 7:15-20 Hitler's fruits were terror, murder and destroying God's people. He most certainly was not a Christian. And there is plenty of evidence of an afterlife out there. Go join a paranormal society and you'll find evidences. Now proving beyond a shadow of a doubt is something completely different. But it is really foolish to gamble your eternal destination on a smug confidence that you can not possibly be wrong. With so much at stake, I would be spending every day researching and seeking the truth to know for sure.
Couldn't care less about Hitler. He's history. When he rose to power and plunged us into a world war it wasn't God who defended us, it was the US army. Thank them, not God you're here right now otherwise your father might have been killed in the conflict but it was some marine who probably shot the guy who was about to shoot him, not God. Don't thank God for anything because he didn't do anything.
If God wants to help, let him solve all the disease in Africa. That's his doing not man. Man didn't invent disease and poisonous snakes and spiders that bite and kill people, God did. He's the one who should be solving all that misery and suffering, not man.
I would agree that if god wants to eradicate all suffering here on Earth, then god should certainly get to work on doing so. But obviously, that's the first question that needs to be answered just so the problem of evil argument can begin teething, much less develop teeth in full Does god want to get rid of all the suffering on this planet? Does god want to get rid of all the suffering for all of humanity right now?
And then of course, assuming that he doesn't, should he want that? And that's a much more difficult question. And yet, without an argument to substantiate that premise, the problem of evil argument just doesn't work.
Human beings are the most cruel to its own kind than any other species. We all centuries of history demonstrating man's immoral nature outside of religion to show that we can't be moral apart from God.
It's frightening to think that the only thing stopping you from breaking into your neighbour's house, raping his wife and stealing his money is your fear that your god will punish you. (shudder)
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Animals are not humans.
...and no matter how many times you repeat that, you will always be wrong and displaying your ignorance.
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All the beauty you see comes directly from Him.
...and the tsunami that kills en-mass, the virus that causes the baby to be born deformed?
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Originally Posted by thrillobyte
Couldn't care less about Hitler. He's history. When he rose to power and plunged us into a world war it wasn't God who defended us, it was the US army.
Not really... it was more the Russians ...but that's a subject for another forum.
I spent time this morning thinking about your posts, especially your latest ones. You are more like your cat than you think.
Your cat lashed out at the feral cat, not because it didn't want that cat to have food but through fear, fear of losing its food supply, it's territory in effect losing its safe place. You strike out against atheists, liberal Christians, LBGT and science as you see us all as threats to your safe olace. A place where only the closed and rigid world of your religion keeps the world from making the Mad Max movies looking like light comedies. And your fears run deeper and wider than I can even imagine.
I will now begin to look at the postings of the other Bible Believers under this new realization to see if they too are under perceiving threats to their safe place. I am sure that at least one of them posts because he is not a nice person, same as at least one atheist seem to me to not be a nice person.
While I was thinking about this I was lying in bed waiting for the alarm to ring waking up my wife and thinking about the first time I saw her almost 47 years ago. And yes her appearance, smile, and nature did fore off chemical signals in my brain. And those chemicals flowed stronger when I saw or even thought about her than at other times. And getting to know each other a true love developed. And we still love each other. Chemical reactions and making the efforts to know each other and care and love each other with as far as I can tell requires no belief in a God or even any existence of a God. We've had rough periods and times which were so perfect but it is really the work that each of us does that keeps the love and our marriage goibg. It is the efforts of humans keeping these two humans happy and still in love. I do wish you happiness and just wished you had a more positive outlook about your fellow humans. No need to fear so much.
I would agree that if god wants to eradicate all suffering here on Earth, then god should certainly get to work on doing so. But obviously, that's the first question that needs to be answered just so the problem of evil argument can begin teething, much less develop teeth in full Does god want to get rid of all the suffering on this planet? Does god want to get rid of all the suffering for all of humanity right now?
And then of course, assuming that he doesn't, should he want that? And that's a much more difficult question. And yet, without an argument to substantiate that premise, the problem of evil argument just doesn't work.
That's the whole point of deism. God may desperately want good things for the human race but He has deliberately chosen to stay completely out of it. From my observations of human development He kick-started the evolutionary cycle from two atoms coming together to start the building process of the first cell, kept everything going until the first hominids were sufficiently developed to make a go of it on their own and then dropped out of sight. Hasn't been heard from since.
So nobody denies men can be evil but the fact that society has managed to flourish and multiply as it as to close to 8 billion people now aptly demonstrates that man has been doing just fine without God's interference. The natural laws He put into place work just fine most of the time. 95% of us are pretty healthy and we give birth to 95% pretty healthy babies. We're destroying the planet, true, but that is for the people 100 years from now to deal with, not us. My only question in all this is why in the hell God created us anyway? Just to get old, suffer and then die? What's the point? I can't believe we evolved on our own. The odds are too astronomically against such a proposition. On the order of 10 to the 150th power or some such insane odds. So why?
That's the whole point of deism. God may desperately want good things for the human race but He has deliberately chosen to stay completely out of it. From my observations of human development He kick-started the evolutionary cycle from two atoms coming together to start the building process of the first cell, kept everything going until the first hominids were sufficiently developed to make a go of it on their own and then dropped out of sight. Hasn't been heard from since.
So nobody denies men can be evil but the fact that society has managed to flourish and multiply as it as to close to 8 billion people now aptly demonstrates that man has been doing just fine without God's interference. The natural laws He put into place work just fine most of the time. 95% of us are pretty healthy and we give birth to 95% pretty healthy babies. We're destroying the planet, true, but that is for the people 100 years from now to deal with, not us. My only question in all this is why in the hell God created us anyway? Just to get old, suffer and then die? What's the point? I can't believe we evolved on our own. The odds are too astronomically against such a proposition. On the order of 10 to the 150th power or some such insane odds. So why?
For my better understanding, are you a Deist based on what you think are the probabilities 9r did I misunderstand? No long explaimation or defense needed though.
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Does god want to get rid of all the suffering on this planet? Does god want to get rid of all the suffering for all of humanity right now?
