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You said he didn't do anything. I said maybe he is doing what can be done.
whether we think its enough is another discussion.
I know most people demand that God be all the Omni's to qualify as God, but I see no reason this must be so. This is why I use the analogy of one of our cells being sentient and trying to figure out what it is and what it is a part of. To our cells, WE are God but we have limited knowledge of the individual lives of our cells or what is happening to them (pain signals and other symptoms). We also have a limited ability to do anything about it. On that basis, what is the justification for expecting more from God we are part of?
Or we haven't heard from God/whom/whatever in the way we expect or perhaps want to. That doesn't mean God/it's not communicating. Maybe we (generally speaking) just haven't yet figured out how to receive the communication or even what to be on the lookout for. Perhaps, for some of us, our conscience and perhaps intuitive moments are the most we're wired to receive. That does not equate to God being absent.
Pleroo, I don't know what to do to get God to communicate with me. I don't doubt millions of other former Christians are in the same boat. I ask this sincerely, "What does it take to convince God we want to communicate with Him?" If I could send a gold-engraved invitation to Him, I would. As it is I can only ache in my heart for him to communicate to me in a meaningful way and hope He picks up on my vibe. But so far....NOTHING. So He ignores me, I ignore Him. That's all I can do. I'm not going to waste the rest of my life pursuing Him after 60 years of trying. The ball is in His court now, far as I am concerned. I made the effort, now it's His turn.
Pleroo, I don't know what to do to get God to communicate with me. I don't doubt millions of other former Christians are in the same boat. I ask this sincerely, "What does it take to convince God we want to communicate with Him?" If I could send a gold-engraved invitation to Him, I would. As it is I can only ache in my heart for him to communicate to me in a meaningful way and hope He picks up on my vibe. But so far....NOTHING. So He ignores me, I ignore Him. That's all I can do. I'm not going to waste the rest of my life pursuing Him after 60 years of trying. The ball is in His court now, far as I am concerned. I made the effort, now it's His turn.
What would be a meaningful way for you, Thrill?
Maybe the efforts we made when we were Christians were blocked by our perceptions of who/what God is?
But, if ignoring God and leaving the ball in God's court makes sense to you and doesn't create emotional upset for you, then I don't think there's anything wrong with that. If, on the other hand, it's something you still ache for, doesn't that indicate you still haven't found a way to be at peace with that decision? Maybe not … I'm just asking.
What would be a meaningful way for you, Thrill?
Maybe the efforts we made when we were Christians were blocked by our perceptions of who/what God is?
This is more of your outstanding insight, Pleroo. If you are looking for the wrong things, you cannot find the right ones.
Quote:
But, if ignoring God and leaving the ball in God's court makes sense to you and doesn't create emotional upset for you, then I don't think there's anything wrong with that. If, on the other hand, it's something you still ache for, doesn't that indicate you still haven't found a way to be at peace with that decision? Maybe not … I'm just asking.
What would be a meaningful way for you, Thrill?
Maybe the efforts we made when we were Christians were blocked by our perceptions of who/what God is?
But, if ignoring God and leaving the ball in God's court makes sense to you and doesn't create emotional upset for you, then I don't think there's anything wrong with that. If, on the other hand, it's something you still ache for, doesn't that indicate you still haven't found a way to be at peace with that decision? Maybe not … I'm just asking.
I will give you the best honest answer I can, Pleroo because you deserve it--as one of the good guys (or gals) on this board:
I'd love to have meaningful communication with God because I could ask Him, "God, if you really want us to believe in your son, Jesus as our savior then why didn't you leave proof so irrefutable and incontrovertible that we wouldn't even need to debate it?"
I have asked this question to myself hundreds of times since leaving Christianity and even asked it out loud a few times just to see if I'd get any response or sign from God, but so far....NOTHING.
This question, to me, is the biggest mystery about Christianity.
Why aren't Christians able to say, "Look! We have Philo of Alexandria giving his own account of the crucifixion because he was there and stood at the cross and witnessed the earthquake, the darkness, the saints rising from the tombs, the veil in the Temple being torn in two. We have other historical accounts of historians who witnessed Jesus preaching because they wanted to see this man whose fame spread throughout the region even to Syria (as Luke claims). We have historical accounts of the apostles preaching and how and where they died. We have a gospel written by Jesus himself so we know exactly what he taught. We have all these autographs preserved today so how can anyone claim Jesus is not the Messiah????"
Instead, all they can point to are the gospels and a couple of lines that use the word "Chrestians" from Tacitus and Sutonious written a hundred years afterward. That's all. A miserable track record from a God who wants us to believe in His son, Jesus.
This is what bothers me about Christianity more than anything else.
Maybe. Unless you're convinced you can't have what you want. Then maybe ignoring it by focusing on things that do give you a sense of peace and hopefulness is a healthy way of getting back into a better frame of mind, which in turn might just allow one to be more open to communication they were looking for in the first place.
I will give you the best honest answer I can, Pleroo because you deserve it--as one of the good guys (or gals) on this board:
I'd love to have meaningful communication with God because I could ask Him, "God, if you really want us to believe in your son, Jesus as our savior then why didn't you leave proof so irrefutable and incontrovertible that we wouldn't even need to debate it?"
I have asked this question to myself hundreds of times since leaving Christianity and even asked it out loud a few times just to see if I'd get any response or sign from God, but so far....NOTHING.
Um … same experience here. I took that as an answer: God doesn't want me to believe in Jesus as my savior. So, there you go. God exists and God thinks it's great that you are getting past needing to be saved from God's "wrath". You're on the right track.
Quote:
This question, to me, is the biggest mystery about Christianity.
Why aren't Christians able to say, "Look! We have Philo of Alexandria giving his own account of the crucifixion because he was there and stood at the cross and witnessed the earthquake, the darkness, the saints rising from the tombs, the veil in the Temple being torn in two. We have other historical accounts of historians who witnessed Jesus preaching because they wanted to see this man whose fame spread throughout the region even to Syria (as Luke claims). We have historical accounts of the apostles preaching and how and where they died. We have a gospel written by Jesus himself so we know exactly what he taught. We have all these autographs preserved today so how can anyone claim Jesus is not the Messiah????"
Instead, all they can point to are the gospels and a couple of lines that use the word "Chrestians" from Tacitus and Sutonious written a hundred years afterward. That's all. A miserable track record from a God who wants us to believe in His son, Jesus.
This is what bothers me about Christianity more than anything else.
Well, I understand. I went into a state of deep grief when I realized what I'd believed about Jesus and all that jazz wasn't true. At some point it occurred to me that the bible and Christian doctrines not being Truth with a capital T wasn't the end of the story and I started looking for a different perspective that made more sense. And I got out of the habit of trying to make it fit with the bible/Christianity. Funny thing, once I did that, some (not all, by any means, and certainly not in a literal way) of the stuff from the bible/Christianity made more sense.
Anyway, back to the God communicating thing. If the only thing that would be meaningful to you is to find out that Christianity is the be all and end all of what God is and how God interacts with people, that might be why you're not hearing from God. You've already gotten your answer, so why keep looking for that answer to be negated?
Jesus said ," the world cannot receive the Holy Spirit"
So basically out side honest reverence for Jesus ,you're SOL .
By honest reverence I mean what Jesus said, "Blessed are they that do hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled." Righteousness is obedience to God ,real time.
Jesus didn't do magic tricks on the pharisees demand , Jesus met the needs of the people seeking His personal influence.
God knows a man's heart, and one who has not repented does not gain much credibility, neither does one that lies.
Some of Jesus first teaching said repent ,
That means to turn against the rebellion (Self govern) one practices concerning God .
People that choose to manipulate the scriptures do not manipulate God, hence this is why Jesus provided the Holy Spirit only to those subject to His Lordship Matthew 7; 21,22,23, . And those the merely use His name for their own means are judged.
Though I had known the healing power of God and His intervention in our lives growing up, this was not substitute for the relationship God intends, and I had to come to grips with that.
I need to know his voice in my life and I had to get really serious and desperate.
Question boils down to is, how desperate are you?
I'm not giving what i did as a pattern for mimicking , but what I will say is some personal sacrifice usually is the thing you love more than God . A prayer life seeking His influence in all aspects .
The limits you place, close the door .
David came to grips and said , "Search me oh God and know my heart, try me and know my thoughts, and lead me in the way everlasting ." Transparency toward revelation and improvement, not excuses.
Most Christians seem to have an abusive nature, even though they will always struggle in their ongoing conformity and sanctification. They expect EVERYONE else to be that way. If anyone rejects that attitude, then they must be eternally lost.
Wow. That's a horrible admission.
If that's true, how can you tell us that christianity is so wonderful?
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